Madagascar comes out this Friday?
Sonofabitch!
*marks through her planner(
Sonofabitch!
*marks through her planner(
AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**
- Thread starter Captain Craig
- Start date
I hope Agent Coulson is really dead. Bringing him back would feel so cheap since his death was so important in getting the Avengers together.
Oh, I agree. Coulson's death means something in the MCU and bringing him back would just be absurd, but there is leeway to do it with and if Marvel wants him back...
Exactly. The last we saw was medics moving in to treat him.
What does Whedon have to say about the character's future? Probably next to nothing. It's unlikely, as either a writer or the director trying to create the best possible dramatic moment, that he'd have cut away from Coulson to have his death announced off-camera - so either he chose to leave the door open or he was instructed to do so by the studio (no way to know which).
The guy who announces his death also lies about the trading cards, of course.
There will be one or more other Marvel movies before the next Avengers, and none of them will be directed by Whedon.
What would bringing characters who had meaningful, dramatic deaths back to life mean for the Marvel "movie universe?"
Golly, it would mean that it's just like the Marvel Comics universe.
What would bringing characters who had meaningful, dramatic deaths back to life mean for the Marvel "movie universe?"
Golly, it would mean that it's just like the Marvel Comics universe.
Has Uncle Ben been brought back in the comics yet?
I know DC and Marvel brought back Robin and Bucky, which is so silly.
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Oh, look - you found one character who wasn't.
There are probably two or three others. Trust me, you don't want to tally up two lists.
I see Captain Marvel is up and about.
Does anyone actually think Coulson's dead?
He got Wash'd, I think he's a goner.
You could be right of course, but that's what I think right now.
Besides, they have Maria Hill now, and she's... such a well-developed character I want to see her get more screentime.
Coulson's exit was so blatantly ambiguous I was sure we'd see him again before the movie even ended, in a post-credits scene at the least...
If he'd been given a clear death scene, I agree that bringing him back would be cheap. But in the given context, not to do so would practically be a Chekov's gun violation.
If he'd been given a clear death scene, I agree that bringing him back would be cheap. But in the given context, not to do so would practically be a Chekov's gun violation.
Um...what? There was not a single thing ambiguous about his death. He got stabbed through the chest. We saw him die mid-sentence.
This sounds like so much wishful thinking from the fans. Coulson is dead, it's sad, but he went out like a champ. He gave Loki a "reason you suck" speech, then blasted him with a BFG. Then he told Fury he was totally ok with dying this way, because the team needed something to motivate them. His death served a purpose in the narrative.
This sounds like so much wishful thinking from the fans. Coulson is dead, it's sad, but he went out like a champ. He gave Loki a "reason you suck" speech, then blasted him with a BFG. Then he told Fury he was totally ok with dying this way, because the team needed something to motivate them. His death served a purpose in the narrative.
Yeah, he gave them a reason to be called Avengers!
- We saw him pass out mid-sentence, not die.
- The cards and the blood was a ruse by Nick Fury to motivate the Avengers.
- The medics never announced his death; Nick Fury was the one who said that the medics said he was dead. The same Nick Fury who faked the cards.
I'd say there's a pretty good chance he's still alive.
There's a chance. "Pretty good" is an exaggeration.
Eh, Marvel wanted him dead? Doesn't mean they won't somehow bring him back. IIRC, in the comics, Hawkeye got killed and resurrected a couple of times (so did his wife, Mockingbird). I say Couslon lives!
Exactly so. The "wishful thinking" is on the side of insisting that the death is unambiguous.
One can call bringing the character back a "cop-out" - that's an opinion. Suggesting that that the studio didn't build an escape right into the screen narrative is simply an error.
If they'd been any more explicit about their misdirection, the scene wouldn't have worked at all
Coulsons death was heroic and awesome, but I love his character, if they do bring him back I'd love to see the Avengers reaction and subsequent beef with Fury. Which if the sequel is in anyway as well written as the first would be a good dramatic sequence for the story.
In Smallville Lex pretty unambiguously had an entire Fortress come crashing down on top of him, we all know how that turned out.
Personally I had been mulling over the idea that Coulson was an LMD. He still could have been, or could be brought back as one.
Personally I had been mulling over the idea that Coulson was an LMD. He still could have been, or could be brought back as one.
All this fooforaw about whether Coulson really died is puzzling. In screen context the only one who really cares is the one with the least motivation to be an Avenger, Stark. And like all the real emotion in this movie, it relies on having seen the other movies. You remember those scenes and it's obvious Coulson's death actually matters, to Stark anyhow.
The others seriously giving a crap was in the script but it was all forced. Captain America and Thor are supposedly used to the death in combat, plus they are natural heroes. The cards are the kind of thing that most of us should actually find kind of off-putting, actually. Hawkeye wasn't there, Black Widow was presumably a coworker but in my memory had no special, i.e., normal, reaction. (But then, she got the full Whedon treatment for her character, meaning limited humanity.) Besides, Black Widow was already on the pay roll. Coulson's death really was rather fake drama, no more essential than the fights between the heroes before it. No guesses as to why Banner does anything, especially since we are explicitly told that pretty much everything we see him say or do is a lie.
Parenthetically, since when did "Black Widow" mean she doesn't mate, then kill?
As to whether Coulson really died, the death scene wasn't a bit believable as a true death scene. But this is true of most death scenes, which in Hollywood are remarkably painless, easy and sentimentalized. Whether Coulson returns rather depends upon negotiations with Gregg, which should go pretty smoothly (for Marvel) given his last scene. So I suppose he'll be back, to no more interesting point than he served leaving.
The only thing Avengers did really well was put all those superheroes up on the screen at more or less the same time and juggle all those characters while keeping the action flowing smoothly (if not entirely rationally.) That's quite a lot, a commendable directing/SFX achievement, and well worth the money for a summer movie experience. But I don't really think it pays in this case to look beneath the hood of your fun ride.
The others seriously giving a crap was in the script but it was all forced. Captain America and Thor are supposedly used to the death in combat, plus they are natural heroes. The cards are the kind of thing that most of us should actually find kind of off-putting, actually. Hawkeye wasn't there, Black Widow was presumably a coworker but in my memory had no special, i.e., normal, reaction. (But then, she got the full Whedon treatment for her character, meaning limited humanity.) Besides, Black Widow was already on the pay roll. Coulson's death really was rather fake drama, no more essential than the fights between the heroes before it. No guesses as to why Banner does anything, especially since we are explicitly told that pretty much everything we see him say or do is a lie.
Parenthetically, since when did "Black Widow" mean she doesn't mate, then kill?
As to whether Coulson really died, the death scene wasn't a bit believable as a true death scene. But this is true of most death scenes, which in Hollywood are remarkably painless, easy and sentimentalized. Whether Coulson returns rather depends upon negotiations with Gregg, which should go pretty smoothly (for Marvel) given his last scene. So I suppose he'll be back, to no more interesting point than he served leaving.
The only thing Avengers did really well was put all those superheroes up on the screen at more or less the same time and juggle all those characters while keeping the action flowing smoothly (if not entirely rationally.) That's quite a lot, a commendable directing/SFX achievement, and well worth the money for a summer movie experience. But I don't really think it pays in this case to look beneath the hood of your fun ride.
I think he's dead, but I could see him coming back. If they want to bring him back, the next Avengers movie makes the most sense. And, it'll depend on if they want to go that route. The "death" was left ambiguous, which allows for bringing him back (especially given the deceptive nature of Fury), but I don't think the intent when they wrote the scene was to have him alive.
I'd have no problem if he comes back. It would make for a kickass moment.
I'd have no problem if he comes back. It would make for a kickass moment.