AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

[Trekker4747]

Not much of a fan of IM2, I always felt BW didn't belong in it. The entire film was a letdown from the first IM.

The more I've watched IM2 the more I liked it, but I still think it's weighted down too much by setting up The Avengers and I think it handled Tony's alcoholism way to lightly and the "party scene" was just absurd.

Black Widow comes off as another character who needs someone to play off of. She doesn't strike me as big enough or interesting enough to have her own movie. They would have to give her movie something special to make it work.

I think a Black Widow movie could very well work but it would be much more of spy or Jason Bourne movie than a grand superhero movie. An "origin story" with her on the wrong side of the law being hunted down by Hawkeye would probably be the neatest way to go, and bring Hawkeye into the movie and give him some much needed development.

And I seriously doubt the sequel is going to pretend that he never made it back to Earth. He'll simply explain to Jane that it was an emergency situation and there wasn't time to say hi (which she should understand, if she had any access to a TV at the time).

Well, I doubt that too. I just suspected The Avengers would have dealt with Thor's return to Earth and then his own second movie would deal with him returning to Jane and his protection of Earth. In fact, would have expected Jane to have played a hand in Thor's return.

Along those lines, in Thor's movie he destroys the Bifrost in order to save Jotunheim. Loki implies that he'll never see Jane again and later when Thor talks to Heimdall he asks if Earth is lost to them. Can they not rebuild the Bifrost? Or would the reconstruction of it last longer than Jane's lifetime?

 

[StarTrek1701]

I wonder how Emily Blunt must be feeling right now. She gave a couple of very high-strung responses as to why she didn't accept the role of Black Widow in IM2 (schedule clashing notwithstanding with the awful Gulliver's Travels). Now with Avengers being a success for the record books whereas her last movie came and went like the Ch'iTauri I am sure she is in the process of firing her agents!

 

[Aldo]

I felt the explanation for how Thor returned to Earth was satisfactory.

Now that I'm thinking about it, how much time did pass in Avengers? I've only seen it once, but it seems to me like one, maybe two days.

I wonder how Emily Blunt must be feeling right now. She gave a couple of very high-strung responses as to why she didn't accept the role of Black Widow in IM2 (schedule clashing notwithstanding with the awful Gulliver's Travels). Now with Avengers being a success for the record books whereas her last movie came and went like the Ch'iTauri I am sure she is in the process of firing her agents!

By that token, I wonder if Edward Norton is beating himself up for acting like a diva and getting asked not to return for the film.

Ok, that makes him sound bad, but I know there's more to him not coming back then just salary negotioations.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Emily Blunt as Black Widow... Now that would have been something.

And what did happen with Ed Norton anyway? Any more details come out?

 

[Trekker4747]

IIRC, Norton wanted a producer credit or some creative control in The Avengers which wasn't going to happen. Which is fine, I think Ruffalo did a fantastic job.

Emily Blunt as Black Widow? Don't see it, not at all.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Ok, that makes him sound bad, but I know there's more to him not coming back then just salary negotioations.

He was a little bitch and demanded final cut on the movie. Marvel refused him, so he refused to do publicity for the movie. That resulted in this statement from Kevin Feige:

"We have made the decision to not bring Ed Norton back to portray the title role of Bruce Banner in The Avengers. Our decision is definitely not one based on monetary factors, but instead rooted in the need for an actor who embodies the creativity and collaborative spirit of our other talented cast members. The Avengers demands players who thrive working as part of an ensemble, as evidenced by Robert, Chris H, Chris E, Samuel, Scarlett, and all of our talented casts. We are looking to announce a name actor who fulfills these requirements, and is passionate about the iconic role in the coming weeks."

In short, Norton acted like a bitch and got slapped down like one. Kudos to Marvel for not taking his shit.

 

[Trekker4747]

Indeed, they wanted more of an ensemble cast, Norton wanted to be more in control. He did okay as Banner in his movie but, again, Ruffalo did a much, much better job and really brought even a measure of heart and humanity to Banner. Banner played well off of Tony, Natasha and everyone else very well. I don't think the scenes between Tony and Banner would have worked nearly as well if it had been Norton.

The scene where Tony is goading Banner with the little shock-stick thingie? I don't see Norton just have the peaceful mannerisms with boiling rage inside of him the same way Ruffalo did.

 

[Venardhi]

I can't really see a Black Widow solo movie working, but I would love to see an "Agents of SHIELD" flick or series starring her and Hawkeye and/or a rotating cast of various non-"super" heroes.

 

[InklingStar]

Iron Man 2 doesn't really work as a standalone movie. The beginning and ending deal with Tony fighting Hammer and Vanko, but the middle deals with Fury and Romanoff getting involved.

On the other hand, if you watch all five movies in sequence, then see Avengers, it really works as part of the ongoing saga. Having Fury, Black Widow, and Agent Coulson (that's his full name, of course) drop in on Tony makes their interaction in The Avengers feel more fleshed-out.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Regarding Black Widow. I don't think she could pull off a movie by herself, but I don't know enough about the comics, so I could be wrong.

That being said, I could see Renner and Johannson in a movie together (can't think of a title, though, "Black Widow and Hawkeye" sounds dumb). They were cool characters who worked well in spite of not having the buildup that other characters had.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Iron Man 2 doesn't really work as a standalone movie. The beginning and ending deal with Tony fighting Hammer and Vanko, but the middle deals with Fury and Romanoff getting involved.

On the other hand, if you watch all five movies in sequence, then see Avengers, it really works as part of the ongoing saga. Having Fury, Black Widow, and Agent Coulson (that's his full name, of course) drop in on Tony makes their interaction in The Avengers feel more fleshed-out.

Reading Fury's Big Week really helped me see where everything fits together chronologically. For example, I had no idea that TiH wasn't concurrent with IM 1 but rather IM2 and Thor. It's really cool how it all fits together.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet. Anyone else notice how for most of the movie he is called "Doctor Banner" or just "Banner"? It was a long time until anyone called him Bruce and only by Black Widow I think. Can't help but think it was another subtle nod to Bill Bixby where his name was David Banner.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Ruffalo's performance really reminded me of Bill Bixby. He managed to balance humanity and pathos and blend it with humor. He had a dangerous edge, but tempered with gentility. He even has a decent physical resemblance to Bix.

 

[Dick Whitman]

He was my favorite part of the movie. I mostly a DC guy but the Hulk has always been my favorite Marvel character. Mostly because of the Bill Bixby show. I like parts of the first two movies but Banner was not a likable character in either. Which made it hard to care about him and the burden he cares. But this time Ruffalo got it right.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I was two years old when the Bill Bixby series premiered and it hooked me for life. I did enjoy the two previous films but I can see why people would have problems with them.

Eric Bana's performance alternated between ice cold detachment and tortured pathos. There wasn't much room for humor in that movie. Ang Lee's Hulk was really a tone poem about emotional repression. This had the result of making Bana's Banner distant and hard to relate to.

On the other hand Ed Norton was too relatable. There was no real pathos or inner conflict. The Hulk was treated simply as a problem to be solved. An outside problem. There was no edge to the performance. That meant Norton was simply a bland, generic good guy.

Ruffalo's Banner, on the other hand, was a guy who had been through hell for years and had gotten used to it. This made him a hell of a lot more dangerous than any of the other Banners. Why? Because while all the other Banners had short fuses, Rufallo was the only Banner who was walking around with a lit match, ready to use it.

 

[Cutter John]

On the other hand, if you watch all five movies in sequence, then see Avengers, it really works as part of the ongoing saga. Having Fury, Black Widow, and Agent Coulson (that's his full name, of course) drop in on Tony makes their interaction in The Avengers feel more fleshed-out.

I can see a Marvel Universe BR/DVD box set coming out right about the time The Avengers disks hit the stores.

 

[RoJoHen]

On the other hand, if you watch all five movies in sequence, then see Avengers, it really works as part of the ongoing saga. Having Fury, Black Widow, and Agent Coulson (that's his full name, of course) drop in on Tony makes their interaction in The Avengers feel more fleshed-out.

I can see a Marvel Universe BR/DVD box set coming out right about the time The Avengers disks hit the stores.

That would actually be pretty cool. I watched "Thor" and "Captain America" for the first time just a couple days ago, and it was pretty neat how all the movies referenced each other in order to lead into "The Avengers."

 

[Eduardo]

On the other hand, if you watch all five movies in sequence, then see Avengers, it really works as part of the ongoing saga. Having Fury, Black Widow, and Agent Coulson (that's his full name, of course) drop in on Tony makes their interaction in The Avengers feel more fleshed-out.

I can see a Marvel Universe BR/DVD box set coming out right about the time The Avengers disks hit the stores.

I wish. That means a deal between three distributors: Universal (Inc. Hulk), Paramount (Iron Man 1-2, Thor, Captain America) & Disney (Avengers).

Not an easy task I think.

 

[Mr Light]

I would enjoy a Fury / Widow / Hawkeye SHIELD movie, but on their own they can't sustain a solid movie. Particularly in the aftermath of the seven hero nerdgasm that was the Avengers!

 

[Skywalker]

I think SHIELD will have a big presence in Captain America 2, so a SHIELD-only film might not be necessary.