Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread

[F. King Daniel]

Enjoyed this very much. A third of it was the formulaic time travel fixit thing we've seen a million times, but that it didn't end in a full reset was cool.

Thor became The Dude. I cried when he talked to his mother. And Cap got the ending I was mad at them for not doing in the first Captain America movie.

But I thought all Asguardians were killed in Infinity War when the ship was blown up? And why wasn't Vision resurrected?

 

[Paul Weaver]

Vision wasn’t killed in the snap, he wasn’t resurrected for the same reason heimdall and Loki weren’t.

Presumably Thanos only killed half the Asgardsians on the ship, that was his M.O

 

[Admiral2]

No film review is objective, that’s the point of the review to know how a movie made them feel. There is no such thing as an objective review.

If this is true, then a demographically sensitive review is no more useful than a demographically insensitive one, and professional film criticism is entirely a waste of time and effort...which makes demanding more diversity in said profession tantamount to me demanding more black characters on a TV show I never watch anyway.

If you want objective, read a press release.

Press releases are more objective than film critiques?? Seriously?

And she was devaluing no one.

Political statements make people feel things too. How many 40-year-old white males do you think felt devalued after the statement, whether that was her intention or not?

 

[urbandefault]

How many 40-year-old white males do you think felt devalued after the statement, whether that was her intention or not?

Probably not as many as some might think.

 

[Nyotarules]

I don't know about others, but I don't get offended that not every movie is made for me. For one thing, the world doesn't revolve around me. For another, I'm perfectly capable of enjoying stuff that's not made for me. I feel sorry for people who can't.

The irony is the original Star Trek pilot based on a fictional future, ignored the ethnicity of the majority of the world's population in its casting. It took the men in suits to tell GR they wanted diversity, since not only white Americans spend money. When the society you live in culturally ignores your presence or presents it in a negative way for over 50 years you start to notice these things, whether you watch the content or not.

 

[Jakks]

The Russo's explain 'old Steve'....

Why the 'Avengers: Endgame’ Final Scene Doesn’t Break the MCU, According to the Russo Brothers

https://www.slashfilm.com/avengers-endgame-final-scene-explained/

Captain America Joined Peggy Carter in an Alternate Timeline
At a Q&A event that recently happened in China (via Reddit), Anthony & Joe Russo were asked a series of questions about the biggest surprises and moments in Avengers: Endgame. Thankfully, someone asked about this final scene and whether or not Captain America traveling to the past resulted in a change in the primary timeline. Since he lived a life with Peggy Carter and then spoke to Sam and Bucky in the same timeline that he had just left, how is that possible? One of the Russo brothers answered:


“The time travel in this movie created an alternate reality. He lived a completely different life in that world. We don’t know how exactly his life turned out, but I’d like to believe he still helped many others when they were needed in that world.”

So does that mean there are two Captain America’s in that alternate timeline?

“Yes, there were two Captain Americas in that reality. It’s just like what Hulk said, what happened in the past has already happened. If you go back to past, you simply created a new reality. The characters in this movie created a new timeline when they went back to the past, but it had no effect to the prime universe. What happened in the past 22 movies was still canon.”

That’s why Hulk promised The Ancient One that they’d return the Infinity Stones, so as not to mess up what she and the people in her reality considered their own prime timeline. Basically, this allows for multiple realities to exist in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, just as Marvel Comics has various realities that allow for different versions of characters to exists and eventually crossover and meet each other. The Russos explained it further by again referencing the final scene with Cap:

“Both Ancient One and Hulk were right. You can’t change the future by simply going back to past. But it’s possible to create a different alternate future. It’s not butterfly effect. Every decision you made in the past could potentially create a new timeline. For example, the old Cap at the end movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam.”

So what did Steve Rogers have to do in order to time travel back to the primary timeline and give Sam Wilson his shield? That’s a question that we may get an answer to down the road. Because apparently there are still some details Anthony & Joe Russo aren’t willing to reveal. The directors were also asked when Steve Rogers traveled back to in order to dance with her, and they said:

“We can’t answer it for now, this is a story that happened in an alternate reality. Maybe it will be revealed in the future.”

Does that mean we could see something play out that explains where Captain America is in the past? Maybe we’ll find out how he was able to travel to the future. Maybe old man Steve Rogers will somehow be part of the Falcon and The Winter Soldier series and we’ll get some tidbits about his ending over there. One thing we know for sure now is that Loki stealing the Tesseract makes for a new 2012 timeline, and that’s likely where his Disney+ series will be taking place. Will there be any other shows that take place in alternate timelines? Maybe WandaVision? Anything is possible in the future of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

 

[Anwar]

Learn to make an argument with lying.

That's you.

Wrong again. You might want to look up what slander is. Second, her quote is racist, as it discriminates against a race (white people),

Which comprise the out-of-touch Hollywood Overclass who deserve it.

ageist (since it discriminates against 40 year olds),

That contributes to their out-of-touchiness.

and sexist (since it discriminates against men).

Nope, because again it's a logical stance considering the Overclass she was swiping at are all Men.

Try substituting black for white, or women for men and see if you change your mind.

So if you change the whole meaning of what she said?

No, it's actually racist. You are putting everyone in one race into a category, and dismissing it.

The Overclass she's critiquing ARE made up of that one race. And they abuse others of other races and the opposite gender in Holywood with their power.

 

[urbandefault]

Has anybody posted this?

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[F. King Daniel]

Vision wasn’t killed in the snap, he wasn’t resurrected for the same reason heimdall and Loki weren’t.

Ah, I see.

Presumably Thanos only killed half the Asgardsians on the ship, that was his M.O

I thought the ship was blown up, though? Perhaps I'm misremembering.

 

[Gryffindorian]

I find it amusing that the white males who complain about perceived racism and sexism exhibited toward them are the same ones who complain about diversity and inclusion being "shoved down their throats." To them, equality is about embracing the status quo of a mostly white male-dominated industry, and when women and minorities are given the spotlight, they scream "We don't need to see that!"

 

[Admiral2]

Probably not as many as some might think.

Fair enough, but as we're dealing with human beings I'm not prepared to assume eveybody who fits that description just shrugged it off when they heard it.

Has anybody posted this?

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See, a Kevin Smith review is like rewatcing the whole movie without the pretty stuff to look at.

 

[Awesome Possum]

If this is true, then a demographically sensitive review is no more useful than a demographically insensitive one, and professional film criticism is entirely a waste of time and effort...which makes demanding more diversity in said profession tantamount to me demanding more black characters on a TV show I never watch anyway.

Then why get upset?

Press releases are more objective than film critiques?? Seriously?

More so than any review in history. Objective information on a movie is the basic information. A review must be subjective by default. This idea that movie or game reviews should be objective makes me wonder if those demanding it even understand what they’re asking for.

Political statements make people feel things too. How many 40-year-old white males do you think felt devalued after the statement, whether that was her intention or not?

Only if they purposely misread it. She’s saying we should hear from a wider range of critics. If you think that means that white men shouldn’t be critics then you either have problems with comprehension or you think that white men should be the only critics we hear from and are too afraid to admit it out loud. Either way the issue exists only in the heads of those objecting, not in the actual comments.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I find it amusing that the white males who complain about perceived racism and sexism exhibited toward them are the same ones who complain about diversity and inclusion being "shoved down their throats." To them, equality is about embracing the status quo of a mostly white male-dominated industry, and when women and minorities are given the spotlight, they scream "We don't need to see that!"

Equality is taking all but one slices of pizza all for yourself and making everyone else share and they don’t seem too happy about losing that one piece. Oppression is giving everyone a slice.

 

[Captrek]

Equality is taking all but one slices of pizza all for yourself and making everyone else share and they don’t seem too happy about losing that one piece. Oppression is giving everyone a slice.

I feel oppressed when people try to explain oppression with lame metaphors.

 

[Refuge]

I feel oppressed when people try to explain oppression with lame metaphors.

I feel like pizza when people use pizza metaphors

 

[Captrek]

I feel like pizza when people use pizza metaphors

I feel like a beer when you use that smiley.

Not that I really needed the excuse, but I’ll use it.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I feel oppressed when people try to explain oppression with lame metaphors.

I’m sad I’m having to simplify it to that level, but here we are.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

"That IS America's ass!" I enjoyed the movie for the most part. The Back to the Future II scenes were really well done and hilarious. Professor Hulk and Fat Thor were the best parts of the movie. Will have to rewatch VERY soon! (and preferably in IMAX)

 

[Teelie]

I liked the Russo's explanation for what happened with Cap. It's close to what I thought was going on. Not perfect but it fills in that plot hole nicely.

The rest of this debate? Not worth it. There are always people who need to be offended and will find a way to be offended. Why argue with them over their insistence on being offended?

 

[Gavin70]

I always say that if you want a character of a certain race or gender, create one, don't change one. When that's done, I think that's racist/sexist. Why? Because it implies that the race you are changing it to cannot be popular enough to sustain an original character.

The problem with that is, when you are making comic book movies, you're adapting characters written decades ago. It's almost impossible to create new characters, because the comic book fans get upset about that. "Why create new characters when there are existing ones that haven't been adapted?" There was just as much fuss about the creation of Michelle Jones (MJ) in Homecoming as there was when people thought Mary Jane had been switched from white to black. It's really a no win situation. And while Spiderman has gone your preferred route of creating a new character, how likely is it that this new character will still be around in 10 years? Or survive a reboot? Or transfer to other mediums? Whereas the original characters will always be considered an essential part of the story and, unless their colour or gender is a vital part of their story (Luke Cage, Black Lightning, Wonder Woman), can easily be cast with the best available actor without making the slightest bit of difference to the story. The only issue is for fans who want to see their comic books recreated exactly on screen.