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Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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Thanks!
Box Office Mojo's estimate is in now and they place Endgame's worldwide earnings at $2,790,216,193.
I sure wish we had gotten that, even as a deleted scene. I love how the Tesseract has band-aids on it. 
Of course, in actuality, nobody ever said that the stones had to be returned to the exact same physical location under the exact same circumstances, just that they had to be returned to the proper place in the timeline.
Deleted scene showing an extended version of Tonys death and where Gamora went
I think the funeral summed up things nicely. If they kept it in we would have two long camera passes scenes with all the heroes. That’s too much
I think the funeral summed up things nicely. If they kept it in we would have two long camera passes scenes with all the heroes. That’s too much
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Yeah, I agree. Including this along with the funeral would've been redundant. Plus, everyone taking a knee just looks a little weird, especially when you consider that it might not have the same meaning for everyone because of their culture and upbringing (the Wakandans, Nebula, Star-Lord, etc.).
Especially Drax and Mantis. Mantis was confused at everyone kneeling until she followed suit
It looks like some of the people from different cultural backgrounds take the knee because they see others doing it. Wouldn't it be more natural for Cap to salute Tony at this point? The scene comes across as awkward and was a good choice to delete. Even Gamora leaving seems a little off--but it probably would have fit in okay with the scene we did get. A quick shot of her walking away.
I found the funeral of Stark a little bit dissapointing, because nobody mentioned black widow.
The scène were she and hawkeye fight for who of them could jump still gives me goosebumps.
The scène were she and hawkeye fight for who of them could jump still gives me goosebumps.
They really should have kept this in the movie...
Yeah, that was great. Pity they didn't finish it.
I'd like to think Tony would have somewhat matured above sophomoric pranks like that in the five years he spent becoming a father - and, had that moment stayed in, Rocket's hair would presumably have remained that way the rest of the movie, a glaring distraction. Cutting it was indeed the right move.
Watched the movie again... couple of things that (still) bother me:
Captain Marvel: yes, she destroys Thanos' ship... but then she doesn't manage to get the glove to the van? And she doesn't manage to defeat Thanos? She's pure energy, she races through things (like the ship) but when it actually counts she's practically useless. Would have been better if the ship scene hadn't been used at all and she stayed away from the battle. How does she arrive on Earth that quickly anyway? Just a couple of days ago story-wise (just before Scott turned up) she told Natasha that she would be off the grid for a long time... Should have stuck with that.
Vormir: yes, the scene packs its punch... but I can't get over the fact that someone who spent 5 years in a murdering rage is supposed to be more worthy of saving than someone who tried to keep things together and relieve her guilt of past sins. Just because he's got family? What kind of explanation is that? (Going from there, Thanos should have been saved as well... he's got daughters after all.) But I still refrain from final judgment as the position we saw Natasha in on the ground of that ravine was eerily similar to the one Gamora had in Infinity War... and if I'm not mistaken her hair was lacking those white-blonde highlights. Granted, we only see her "body" from afar but somehow I don't think all's said and done about that death. A mere origin story of a dead hero doesn't make much sense in phase 4 if the character won't ever reappear.
Steve never apologized to Tony for lying about Bucky and his parents. And please, don't say that Tony should have found out by himself when going through the material Natasha released in Winter Soldier - that's not the point. He didn't know by the end of Civil War, that's the way the story was told, and using non-canon "should have/could have/must have" in order to shift the blame to Tony is ridiculous... and even if he did know that doesn't negate the fact that Steve definitely knew and lied about it (by omission). Steve took the easy way out, thinking Tony would never find out and/or be told by a 3rd party, and it blew up spectacularly... and incidentally, this lying and failure to own up to it makes it pretty difficult for me to think that Steve's worthy of the hammer.
Overall, still love the movie.
Captain Marvel: yes, she destroys Thanos' ship... but then she doesn't manage to get the glove to the van? And she doesn't manage to defeat Thanos? She's pure energy, she races through things (like the ship) but when it actually counts she's practically useless. Would have been better if the ship scene hadn't been used at all and she stayed away from the battle. How does she arrive on Earth that quickly anyway? Just a couple of days ago story-wise (just before Scott turned up) she told Natasha that she would be off the grid for a long time... Should have stuck with that.
Vormir: yes, the scene packs its punch... but I can't get over the fact that someone who spent 5 years in a murdering rage is supposed to be more worthy of saving than someone who tried to keep things together and relieve her guilt of past sins. Just because he's got family? What kind of explanation is that? (Going from there, Thanos should have been saved as well... he's got daughters after all.) But I still refrain from final judgment as the position we saw Natasha in on the ground of that ravine was eerily similar to the one Gamora had in Infinity War... and if I'm not mistaken her hair was lacking those white-blonde highlights. Granted, we only see her "body" from afar but somehow I don't think all's said and done about that death. A mere origin story of a dead hero doesn't make much sense in phase 4 if the character won't ever reappear.
Steve never apologized to Tony for lying about Bucky and his parents. And please, don't say that Tony should have found out by himself when going through the material Natasha released in Winter Soldier - that's not the point. He didn't know by the end of Civil War, that's the way the story was told, and using non-canon "should have/could have/must have" in order to shift the blame to Tony is ridiculous... and even if he did know that doesn't negate the fact that Steve definitely knew and lied about it (by omission). Steve took the easy way out, thinking Tony would never find out and/or be told by a 3rd party, and it blew up spectacularly... and incidentally, this lying and failure to own up to it makes it pretty difficult for me to think that Steve's worthy of the hammer.
Overall, still love the movie.
When did he lie?
She does get past Thanos, so Thanos blows up the van. No one can reach a destination that doesn't exist, not even Captain Marvel. She also doesn't race 'through' things as pure energy, she smashes through them which is why she left giant holes in the ship. And she's literally the only person who actually poses a serious physical challenge to Thanos even while he has all the stones, but everyone, including Thor, Hulk and Carol, is vulnerable to a full blast from the power stone to the face. And ultimately the movie had to end with a grand sacrifice from the original team, so she simply couldn't be allowed to be the one who finally stops Thanos.
I don't think you can read the scene as either of them being more or less 'deserving' to live. The point is that neither of them is willing to sacrifice the other but both are willing to sacrifice themselves. (Sacrifice is a major theme running through both these films). And it also reinforces that running idea that Black Widow is really the best there is, even in comparison to her longtime partner Hawkeye.
If you're talking about seeing it onscreen, I don't think it was necessary to go any more into detail than what we saw. It was the energy between the two of them that was important.
If you're talking about judging the characters actions, you don't know that Steve never apologized for that. They're all working together for weeks/months setting up the time heist before the action kicks in. And if he actually didn't, I would suspect it had more to do with Tony specifically wanting to put the whole thing behind them and specifically asking Steve to leave it alone.
He admitted to withholding the truth in Civil War. He didn't lie straight out but he did lie by omission.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lie of omission is when you intentionally leave out information when dealing with a subject. Not telling someone everything you know isn't the same thing.
