Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread

[Awesome Possum]

So nobody can criticize woman in movies because then they are sexist or by definition wrong?

And like crookeddy said, It was also weird in AOU.

No, but singling out scenes because it’s all women and not scenes with all men just comes off as sexist. Especially given how openly sexist some people have been about that scene and anything involving Captain Marvel. So while you may not be sexist, you are agreeing with sexist over the same exact scene.

And it’s not weird, it would be weird if it suddenly turned into a black and white western. A shot of all the heroes is to be expected in the MCU.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I think the problem is that people don't say "I liked the scene"/"I didn't like the scene" it's "You didn't like the scene. There's something wrong with you.".

 

[Awesome Possum]

I think the problem is that people don't say "I liked the scene"/"I didn't like the scene" it's "You didn't like the scene. There's something wrong with you.".

If you ignore a certain toxic element of the fandom that they just happen to agree with. I’m not saying it’s for the same reason, but people are going to react to that. Have some self awareness of how that looks.

 

[Turtletrekker]

It’s a movie, it’s all forced. That’s how movies are made, there are shots meant to stand out. That’s how you get memorable scenes. If it all looks the same and blends in, you don’t remember it. That’s why people can’t remember the Transformers films. You’re just picking and choosing which ones you don’t like because it’s memorable and you didn’t like that that for some reason.

Other famous shots that were forced.

• Luke staring at the twin suns setting in Star Wars
• The priest standing outside the home in The Exorcist
• T-Rex roaring as banner falls in Jurassic Park
• Superman smiling at camera in Superman The Movie
• Building collapsing as Narrator and Marla watch in Fight Club
• Andy standing in rain in Shawshank Redemption
• Injured soldiers in Gone With The Wind
• Dorothy and friends going to Emerald City in Wizard of Oz

All brief moments of film that will be remembered as long as we remember film, there are countless others. They were meant to stand out, that’s the reason they shot it. Yet it’s somehow a problem with this one scene.

See Also-- ET and Elliot riding their bike in front of the Moon, Batman flying his Batwing in front of the Moon. Christopher Reeve Superman flying off into the sunset at the end of each movie.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

Great you just spoiled the next HISHE video

I'm a role player, friend. And I've been one for nearly forty years. Spoiling the plans of Supervillains, aka Gamemasters, is just what I do.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

If you ignore a certain toxic element of the fandom that they just happen to agree with. I’m not saying it’s for the same reason, but people are going to react to that. Have some self awareness of how that looks.

I do ignore toxic fandom, I don’t go seeking it out, I haven’t read any of it. Why are you guys reading toxic fandom and moreso holding others to them? I suppose I could go out to 4Chan or whatever but why?

 

[Awesome Possum]

I do ignore toxic fandom, I don’t go seeking it out, I haven’t read any of it. Why are you guys reading toxic fandom and moreso holding others to them? I suppose I could go out to 4Chan or whatever but why?

It’s everywhere you look. I don’t seek it out. It pops up if I watch YouTube or go on Twitter or read an article about the MCU. The only way to ignore it is to avoid all discussion on the MCU, close your eyes and pretend it isn’t happening.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Well, I still wouldn't give those guys the power to affect your judgments over everyone. You're kind of perpetuating their ideas for them applying their thought processes to everyone else, instead of 100s (or whatever) of people with these ideas you've turned them into 1000s or whatever if that makes any sense.

 

[crookeddy]

Interestingly, I mostly learn about what the toxic fandom feels here.

 

[Refuge]

Endgame - it was great! Not perfect, but really well done. So much to ruminate over... however I find that Infinity War was a better film, more balanced (no pun intended) and I found it more satisfying overall. I think IW is gonna end up being my fave in the MCU.

There is always pressure to satisfy both story and character AND fan expectation with the last of a series. Infinity War was story driven in so far as it was fearless. It wiped out characters because the story gave it that clinical equation - though it is noted that the original Avengers were spared. However so often there's a sense that our heroes and heroines are immune. It would've been super brave to leave the resolution of The Avengers with the ending Infinity War gave us.

Endgame was a bit of a cheat but it was emotionally designed to be feel good - to reward the investment we had and have in these characters. Personally I feel it made the deaths the way death is. Infinity War was shock value but their deaths were never going to stick because we knew Endgame was coming. Endgame honours (Widow's) death more because it was a sacrifice. Tony dying was the right thing to do as well, he and the actor were owed that moment. If it wasn't for the success of Iron Man and RDJ I suspect a lot that came there after wouldn't have had the same momentum. Even Steve's arc had a sense of fair play. Steve was always my favourite so as a fan I'm not unhappy with his story. I was mostly satisfied even though I knew it was going to be written to give us that.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

yeah sure in a sense .. every moment filmed for a movie is forced. as Awesome Possum said in response to me (idk how the quoting system works) but to use that to explain the moment away is being deliberately naive and obstinate just for the sake of propagating a vapid argument. I even spoke with fans of the film (of which I am one, i liked it very much) that agree the moment is forced. There are moments in movies that feel forced compared to others.. moments that feel "off". I enjoyed EG a lot but now I'm out, not only are there superheroes, and ridiculous nano tech that can grow invulnerable suits around people, now the Avengers have a working time machine, there are alternate realities etc etc.. just more convoluted stuff.. I enjoyed the film but in all likelihood I'm out

 

[Agony_Boothb]

If it makes anyone feel better I thought caps 'avengers assemble' moment was just as cheesy as the lady avengers scene.

 

[Refuge]

If it makes anyone feel better I thought caps 'avengers assemble' moment was just as cheesy as the lady avengers scene.

Fair enough, I liked the visual of them in that circle - so cool. Might be one of the best moments ever.

NOW when it comes to cheesy lines I kind of winced a bit when Tony was rabbiting onto Loki ... "The Avengers. It's what we call ourselves..." Yeah 'we' love to refer to 'ourselves' with this fab title!

 

[Awesome Possum]

Well, I still wouldn't give those guys the power to affect your judgments over everyone. You're kind of perpetuating their ideas for them applying their thought processes to everyone else, instead of 100s (or whatever) of people with these ideas you've turned them into 1000s or whatever if that makes any sense.

I don’t. I’m just aware of them. I don’t walk through life blindly and unaware of the context of comments.

Interestingly, I mostly learn about what the toxic fandom feels here.

It does seem to be common here, pointing it out and combating it is the only way to keep it from talking over. Ignoring it will lead to it taking over, which some people would be extremely happy to have here. Instead it basically mocked here and we have a wide variety of fans instead of just a bunch of white guys crying over a girl in their superhero movie.

 

[Captrek]

I also don't think I am a ''terrible'' person for having the same opinion as you.

Not a terrible person, just somewhat lacking in perspective.

These movies are full of pandering and “forced” moments, but you don’t notice it when it successfully targets you. You only notice it when it’s directed at other people. And when you’re used to it always targeting you, one two-second shot pandering to somebody else sticks out like a sore thumb and becomes a distraction.

Some of these “other” people notice all the pandering targeted at you, and have learned that pandering comes with the territory in these kinds of movies. That’s a lesson you haven’t had to learn yet.

 

[crookeddy]

It does seem to be common here, pointing it out and combating it is the only way to keep it from talking over. Ignoring it will lead to it taking over, which some people would be extremely happy to have here. Instead it basically mocked here and we have a wide variety of fans instead of just a bunch of white guys crying over a girl in their superhero movie.

There are a few posters here that qualify, but I mostly meant that I see it talked about. "Twitter said that _____", "here is some YouTube video about _____". They are not things I'd ever even know about without this place.

 

[FreezeC77]

If it makes anyone feel better I thought caps 'avengers assemble' moment was just as cheesy as the lady avengers scene.

Plus if you just to by what assemble means... They just DID assemble. We watched them fall-in and assemble. I know it is the comics rallying cry... But its like saying Avengers come over here and line up.

 

[Awesome Possum]

There are a few posters here that qualify, but I mostly meant that I see it talked about. "Twitter said that _____", "here is some YouTube video about _____". They are not things I'd ever even know about without this place.

There are actual toxic fans here. Being aware of it isn’t the problem. We should do what we can to be positive and welcoming instead of hating everything and treating people who do like something as idiots who don’t understand real Star Trek or Star Wars or whatever.

 

[crookeddy]

There are actual toxic fans here. Being aware of it isn’t the problem. We should do what we can to be positive and welcoming instead of hating everything and treating people who do like something as idiots who don’t understand real Star Trek or Star Wars or whatever.

The Star Trek boards are a different beast, and I never venture in there. I mostly stay on board ID 15

 

[Awesome Possum]

The Star Trek boards are a different beast, and I never venture in there. I mostly stay on board ID 15

It can be rough.