Atomic Bombing of Hiroshima - 65th Anniversary (6.8.2010)

[JRS]

Today, 65 years ago the US bomber named "Enola Gay" dropped the atomic bomb to the city of Hiroshima. This was the first time that such weapon was used in the history of warfare:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

Today the World remembers that event and those who died in the bombing:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10888571

The United States participated for the ceremonies, for the very first time.
(I personally would be happy to see Nukes going away, for good. Horrible killing machines.)

Here still a poem about Hiroshima:

Aoi Sorawa (Skies of Blue)

Let us leave our children skies of blue
That burning August morning even shadows burnt away
That weight of fathers mothers brothers sisters lives
We carry and we hold.
Let us leave our children skies of blue.
That night the essence of thousands vanished silent into space
The weight of fathers mothers brothers sisters lives
Now float like lantern lights to sea
Let us leave our children skies of blue.
Put out the fires of war from every nation in the world
May peace and love and liberty and life glow
in our handshakes
In our voices
in our songs
Let us leave our children skies of blue.

Peace to all..

 

[BolianAuthor]

Today, 65 years ago the US bomber named "Enola Gay" helped end the Second World War.

 

[sidious618]

Yeah, not America's finest hour, was it JRS? An impressive message to the Soviets, I'll grant you that.

 

[SVD]

Not the finest, right, but definitely her most decisive and blunt moment.

I've read that Japan is still sore over it, and wants the US to apologize for the act.

 

[BolianAuthor]

^

I'm sure a lot of people want us to apologize for a lot of things.

The simple truth is, it was war. A big, long, and horrifying war. Both sides do what they must in war to survive and attain victory. We had the means at the time to end the war in pretty much one fell swoop, and we took it. Aye, not our most shining moment, but there it is. We cannot undo it. And it put an end to a war that could have gone on to kill even more people, for a longer period of time.

 

[RJDiogenes]

War is Hell; never more so than on that day. I hope nuclear weapons never need to be used again.

 

[1001001]

Imagine a time when it all began
In the dying days of a war
A weapon that would settle the score
Whoever found it first would be sure to do their worst.
They always had before...

Imagine a man where it all began
A scientist pacing the floor
In each nation, always eager to explore
To build the best big stick
To turn the winning trick.
But this was something more...

The big bang took and shook the world
Shot down the rising sun
The end was begun and it hit everyone
When the chain reaction was done
The big shots tried to hold it back
Fools tried to wish it away
The hopeful depend on a world without end
Whatever the hopeless may say

Imagine a place where it all began
Gathered from across the land
To work in the secrecy of the desert sand
All of the brightest boys
To play with the biggest toys
More than they bargained for...

Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of Enola Gay
Flying out of the shockwave on that August day
All the powers that be, and the course of history,
Would be changed forevermore...

Manhattan Project - Rush



I think it was an awful thing, but I also think a ground war in Japan would have been worse (for the United States).

Ultimately, like has been said, it was war. They attacked us first.

 

[Showdown]

Today, 65 years ago the US bomber named "Enola Gay" helped end the Second World War.

That day, Americans chose the lesser of two evils.

 

[Rii]

May we mourn all who died in the war as victims of human folly, their differences bridged at last in death.

I'll refrain from commenting on the rest of this thread. Suffice to say my ignore list has a few new entries.

 

[clint g]

I think it was an awful thing, but I also think a ground war in Japan would have been worse (for the United States).

Ultimately, like has been said, it was war. They attacked us first.

I mostly agree. Only thing I would add is that it a ground war would have been worse for Japan as well.

 

[RAMA]

I'd love if we didnt have to have weapons at all, but human nature seems to preclude that...I wouldnt be surprised if "alien" nature precluded it as well if we ever find them. Atomic bombs are likely not the most powerful weapons we can design, but it certainly is a turning point in our knowledge and use of the nature of universe for our own violent ends. Do I feel sorry for the Japanese civilans...sure do . Was it necessary? I believe so. 200,000 lives for possibly over a million on both sides..? Very difficult trade-off but in the mindset of the time I don't think any other choice was possible. Its very easy to question when you are not in the moment.

RAMA

 

[Rii]

Its very easy to question when you are not in the moment.

Or when the air is thick with lies, hypocrisy, and false dichotomies. The question is, who was doing the lying: President Truman, or those advising him? I prefer to think that he was lied to about Hiroshima.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

May we mourn all who died in the war as victims of human folly, their differences bridged at last in death.

I'll refrain from commenting on the rest of this thread. Suffice to say my ignore list has a few new entries.

Warning for trolling. You can not mention that you are putting people on ignore. Though you didn't mention anyone by name, the topic is short enough and your position clear enough to make it obvious who you were referring to. Comments to PM.

 

[Rii]

Fuck off.

Edit: and because I'll be banned in a minute, check out Truman's remarks pertaining to Hiroshima here. Might want to Ctrl+F since it's a long speech. Later folks.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

May we mourn all who died in the war as victims of human folly, their differences bridged at last in death.

I'll refrain from commenting on the rest of this thread. Suffice to say my ignore list has a few new entries.

Warning for trolling. You can not mention that you are putting people on ignore. Though you didn't mention anyone by name, the topic is short enough and your position clear enough to make it obvious who you were referring to. Comments to PM.

Really? I have never encountered that rule before. What's the reason for it? I mean telling someone you're going to ignore them might be rude, but it seems fairly innocuous.

 

[Noname Given]

Yeah, not America's finest hour, was it JRS? An impressive message to the Soviets, I'll grant you that.

Oh please. IF you look at the history IN CONTEXT; the bombs probably saved more lives on BOTH sides then they took; and they also shortened the war in the Pacific. Even after the second one dropped; the Japanese Military DIDN'T want to surrender:

From Wikipedia:
Objecting to the surrender, die-hard army fanatics attempted a coup d'etat by conducting a full military assault and takeover of the Imperial Palace. The physical recording of the surrender speech was hidden and preserved overnight, and the coup was quickly crushed on the Emperor's order.

So sorry, imo the U.S. has NOTHING to apologize for. Invading Japan to force a surrender that way would have caused way more death and devastation over the whole of the island; and again, cost way more lives on BOTH sides in the long run. (imo)

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

Today, 65 years ago the US bomber named "Enola Gay" helped end the Second World War.

Indeed, as opposed to an invasion of Japan. I have been, and always will be, in favor of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

That being said, i would also love for those horrible things never to be used again.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

May we mourn all who died in the war as victims of human folly, their differences bridged at last in death.

I'll refrain from commenting on the rest of this thread. Suffice to say my ignore list has a few new entries.

Warning for trolling. You can not mention that you are putting people on ignore. Though you didn't mention anyone by name, the topic is short enough and your position clear enough to make it obvious who you were referring to. Comments to PM.

Really? I have never encountered that rule before. What's the reason for it? I mean telling someone you're going to ignore them might be rude, but it seems fairly innocuous.

It's been something that has been warnable since long before I became a mod.

It's essentially telling the person you are directing the comment at that you and your opinion are so worthless that I never want to read another comment from you again. That's not really innocuous, IMO. In my experience when it's been said publicly it's always been used as a way to insult the person you were debating.

Additionally, the whole point of the ignore feature is so that people who can't ignore someone on their own or resist the urge to flame or troll those they dislike have a feature that makes those posts unreadable except by choice. Announcing to the forum that you're ignoring someone defeats the purpose of that.

Now, if you have any further comments on this matter, please PM me to discuss it so we don't derail the thread any longer. The "Comments to PM" bit at the end of mod posts applies to everyone, so that the thread doesn't get sidetracked.

 

[JRS]

The history of war is the history of pain
I think what is one of the most horrible things about the World War II is the profound human suffering, that particulary civilians had to endure( like in the case of Hiroshima)

I dont want to participate to the should have or could have debates about dropping of the bomb.
Is it important to talk about it? Yes, but I think arguing about it here and insulting other posters wont really change the past.
To me its more important, that we remember what took place during those years and teach to future generations about the horrors and history of WWII, so that we as a humanity wont repeat the same mistakes in the future.

Should US apologize? I dont know if its necessary..but showing respect to those who died is a good idea.
I sincerely hope that President Obama will visit the Hiroshima memorial in the near future and will lay some flowers there. This would send a profound message and would maybe help to heal the last remaining wounds still open in Hiroshima.

To those, who would like to see an excellent film/mini-series about the events surrounding Hiroshima I recommend this Canadian/Japanese co-production:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113309/

The film is very well made, intelligent..and most importantly shows the events honestly from both American and Japanese sides.

 

[1001001]

Today, 65 years ago the US bomber named "Enola Gay" helped end the Second World War.

Indeed, as opposed to an invasion of Japan. I have been, and always will be, in favor of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

That being said, i would also love for those horrible things never to be used again.

Exactly.

I don't think anyone is going to argue it was a great thing, or be happy about the lives lost. But in context, at the time, given the alternatives, I think it was the correct decision.