At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterprises?

[Christopher]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

I'm reminded of an old Starlog cartoon, depicting the launch of the Enterprise NCC-1701-Z. "Now, be very careful, because this is the last one!"

Yeah that's the thing of it. They can keep using the name Enterprise forever. The registry accommodates all future ships by design. There can be Enterprise NCC-1701. And an Enterprise NCC-2710. Enterprise NCC-5299. Enterprise NCC-19664. Enterprise NCC-19730. Enterprise NCC-43870. And so on. No limit, no problem.

Seemingly that's what registry numbers do, identify specific vessels even if she carries the same name of a previous vessel.

They got this strange idea to then honor Enterprise not merely by keeping the name alive by tradition, but specifically the registry of one singular ship.

Hear, hear. The idea of reusing the registry number with a letter appended makes no damn sense. It's one of the stupidest conceits in the franchise. That's like giving Joe Chang Jr. the same Social Security number as Joe Chang Sr. but with an "A" appended. That's not how identification numbers work! The name can be whatever you want, but the registration number should indicate the ship's class and its place in the construction sequence, or whatever. It's the part that's supposed to be functional, not sentimental.

I think that in ST:TMP, they considered renumbering the refit Enterprise as NCC-1800, because it was effectively the first of a new class. I wish they'd gone ahead with that. It would've set a precedent that the number can change while the name stays the same, and then we wouldn't have been saddled with the bloody A, B, C, D, etc.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

I think it was really just something intended to be done only once with the Enterprise-A, and then it became a harmless Starfleet tradition for subsequent Enterprises. At this point, it's not so much to continue honoring Kirk's Enterprise, but continuing a particular tradition.

 

[BillJ]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

I think that in ST:TMP, they considered renumbering the refit Enterprise as NCC-1800, because it was effectively the first of a new class. I wish they'd gone ahead with that. It would've set a precedent that the number can change while the name stays the same, and then we wouldn't have been saddled with the bloody A, B, C, D, etc.

If I remember correctly, they also toyed with making the refit the 1701A. I also seem to remember a mention of an "NCC-2701" somewhere along the way.

 

[Timo]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

Well, the NCC-1701-A thing makes sense as a publicity stunt. It's right on par with the logic of giving Kirk a starship at all, let alone a replica of his old one...

That this would be perpetuated for the E-B is strange. But once this gets going, stopping the silliness would be the thing calling for effort. After all, the general public appeared very interested in the E-B, and stupid questions like "How can there be an Enterprise without Jim Kirk?" would be asked.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[YJAGG]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

I was reminded in the movie forum of a line from First Contact when Picard mentions "There are plenty of letters in the alphabet," in regards to blowing up the Enterprise-E to stop the Borg. Then, I remembered in Azati Prime, Daniels mentions to Captain Archer about the Enterprise-J fighting a war against the Sphere Builders.

Now, I can understand the reasoning behind the Enterprise-A. The Enterprise-0 saved the Federation's collective ass time and again, so it just makes sense to have a ship to commemorate the name. The same with the Enterprise-B, after the -A helped establish peace with the Klingon Empire. The Enterprise-D makes sense too, considering how the Enterprise-C was lost.

Now, this is when it starts to get a little ridiculous. The Enterprise-E is commissioned after Commander "HAP" Riker loses the -D to a twenty year old Bird of Prey. Maybe that's not as awesome as going out in a blaze of glory over the Genesis Planet or getting blown to shit fighting the Romulans, but Starfleet still decided it was prudent to commission another Enterprise.

Now, this is where it gets tricky. Daniels tells Archer that they are in the 26th century. Watching the Enterprise-J. If we don't count the NX-01, then that's ELEVEN Enterprises in just two hundred and fifty years (assuming the Delphic Expanse battle took place exactly in the year 2500). That averages out to about one Enterprise every 23 years, but aren't Starfleet ships supposed to last longer? We know that Enterprise-0, -C, and -D met horrific fates in battle, we don't have any data for the -B or -E, although we know the -A was retired to make way for the -B. So, out of six ships, half of them ended in explosions. We can also deduce that for such a quick turnaround in Enterprises through the years, the majority of ships from the Enterprise-E through Enterprise-I also met untimely demises.

So, why does Starfleet keep building them? The only message they'll be sending an enemy race is that the Enterprise name is the ship equivalent of Wile E. Coyote. Keep blowing 'em up... we'll make more!

At what point does Starfleet decide the letter designations are getting a little ridiculous? The Enterprise-Z? What happens when that ship gets blown up? Does it roll over to the Enterprise-AA, or do that go with numbers? The Enterprise-One?

Just a little thought I had. Anybody have any idea or comments?

I am sure they just picked a letter that was far enough out to not box them into too of a deep a hole for the convention panel Q&A's

 

[T'Girl]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

It would make more sense if we were also occasionally seeing other ships with letters following their registry numbers.

Maybe after reaching Z, they could begin to using Japanese kanji characters, would take a while to run through all of them.

 

[BillJ]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

It would make more sense if we were also occasionally seeing other ships with letters following their registry numbers.

Defiant got an "A", and before it was retconned, the Yamato was NCC-1305-E in "Where Silence Has Lease".

 

[YJAGG]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

It would make more sense if we were also occasionally seeing other ships with letters following their registry numbers.

Maybe after reaching Z, they could begin to using Japanese kanji characters, would take a while to run through all of them.

Might be too Firefly-/ Blade Runner esque for some

 

[Squiggy]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

Given that TUC suggests that the full and correct insignia is NCC-1701-Alpha [...]

I always assumed that's just them using the NATO phonetic alphabet. (Alfa, Bravo, Charlie...)

Same here... Alpha Bravo Charlie, etc.

Perhaps after they get to Enterprise-Z, it might go something like this...

NCC-1701-A2. And her shuttlecraft... NCC-1701-A2/1, etc.

That's probably what it is, since TUC came almost 2 years after Yesterday's Enterprise, which set the 4th Federation Enterprise as C and not Gamma.

Also, TUC was pretty militaristic. It makes more sense that it was "Alfa" and not "Alpha".

 

[B.J.]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

1. I don't think there's a starfleet regulation that prohibits skipping letters. So, Ent-J would not necessarily mean there had been 10 enterprises before that one. Though I must admit I can't think of any good reasons to skip a letter ....

Standards for drawing (blueprint) view letters say that you can't use "I", "O", "Q", "S", "X", and "Z", because they can be confused with numbers or other drawing symbols. It's anyone's guess as to whether Starfleet would have similar restrictions on hull lettering.

 

[Dukhat]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

Daniels tells Archer that they are in the 26th century. Watching the Enterprise-J. If we don't count the NX-01, then that's ELEVEN Enterprises in just two hundred and fifty years (assuming the Delphic Expanse battle took place exactly in the year 2500).

What you're not taking into account is that the Enterprise-J only existed in an alternate reality where the Sphere Builders were able to expand the Expanse from the 22nd century onward to encompass the entire Alpha Quadrant by the 26th. None of this happened in the "prime" universe; it was just an alternate future Daniels showed Archer. So then history would have changed starting from the 22nd century onward, and for all we know alt-Starfleet churned out Ents-nil through J to just fight the Sphere Builders in that 400 year period (and based on the design of the Ent-J, all of those Enterprises would probably even have looked quite different from the prime universe ones, based on Archer's NX-01.) Basically, it was just a scenario of "this is what will happen if you don't stop the Sphere Builders now." And because he did stop them, the Enterprise-J does not exist anymore.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

Daniels tells Archer that they are in the 26th century. Watching the Enterprise-J. If we don't count the NX-01, then that's ELEVEN Enterprises in just two hundred and fifty years (assuming the Delphic Expanse battle took place exactly in the year 2500).

What you're not taking into account is that the Enterprise-J only existed in an alternate reality where the Sphere Builders were able to expand the Expanse from the 22nd century onward to encompass the entire Alpha Quadrant by the 26th. None of this happened in the "prime" universe; it was just an alternate future Daniels showed Archer. So then history would have changed starting from the 22nd century onward, and for all we know alt-Starfleet churned out Ents-nil through J to just fight the Sphere Builders in that 400 year period (and based on the design of the Ent-J, all of those Enterprises would probably even have looked quite different from the prime universe ones, based on Archer's NX-01.) Basically, it was just a scenario of "this is what will happen if you don't stop the Sphere Builders now." And because he did stop them, the Enterprise-J does not exist anymore.

In All Good Things... we saw a possible future where a super-upgraded Enterprise-D could blow shit up with one shot of a super-destructo beam, only to have it crash on Veridian III months later to make way for the Enterprise-E (also with Data being alive in said future).

So, by the 26th century, they could very well be on the Enterprise-K (especially given Picard's penchant for ramming things [ships into other ships, you pervert! Get your mind out of the gutter ])

 

[Kemaiku]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

Given that in Star Trek Online, the Enterprise F only launches sometime after 2401, it's more than 150 (closer to 160) to get to F.

At nearly 23 years per Enterprise, the Z won't launch until 2820, and serve until 2843. Assuming they don't last longer in the future, which they might, taking the odd break.

So by the time of the USS Relativity they may only be up to the U or something. The Federation as we know it may not exist at that point, and be the Temporal Federation.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

Well, the NCC-1701-A thing makes sense as a publicity stunt. It's right on par with the logic of giving Kirk a starship at all, let alone a replica of his old one...

That this would be perpetuated for the E-B is strange. But once this gets going, stopping the silliness would be the thing calling for effort. After all, the general public appeared very interested in the E-B, and stupid questions like "How can there be an Enterprise without Jim Kirk?" would be asked.

Timo Saloniemi

Kinda makes you wonder if this question was ever raised by the time Rachel Garrett got the Enterprise-C, "This is the first starship Enterprise in *insert # of years here* without John Harriman in command, how do you feel about that, sir?"

 

[RandyS]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

Never. When they run out of letters, they switch to roman numerals.

 

[Christopher]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

But... Roman numerals are letters! I'm so confused...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

They go to numbers. NCC-1701-1

 

[RandyS]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

But... Roman numerals are letters! I'm so confused...

My work here is done.

 

[HIjol]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterprises?


When, "...overhead, without any fuss, the stars (start ) going out."

(The Nine Billion Names of Enterprise)

 

[Jeffe525]

Re: At what point does the Federation decide to stop building Enterpri

I'm reminded of an old Starlog cartoon, depicting the launch of the Enterprise NCC-1701-Z. "Now, be very careful, because this is the last one!"

Yeah that's the thing of it. They can keep using the name Enterprise forever. The registry accommodates all future ships by design. There can be Enterprise NCC-1701. And an Enterprise NCC-2710. Enterprise NCC-5299. Enterprise NCC-19664. Enterprise NCC-19730. Enterprise NCC-43870. And so on. No limit, no problem.

Seemingly that's what registry numbers do, identify specific vessels even if she carries the same name of a previous vessel.

They got this strange idea to then honor Enterprise not merely by keeping the name alive by tradition, but specifically the registry of one singular ship.

Hear, hear. The idea of reusing the registry number with a letter appended makes no damn sense. It's one of the stupidest conceits in the franchise. That's like giving Joe Chang Jr. the same Social Security number as Joe Chang Sr. but with an "A" appended. That's not how identification numbers work! The name can be whatever you want, but the registration number should indicate the ship's class and its place in the construction sequence, or whatever. It's the part that's supposed to be functional, not sentimental.

I think that in ST:TMP, they considered renumbering the refit Enterprise as NCC-1800, because it was effectively the first of a new class. I wish they'd gone ahead with that. It would've set a precedent that the number can change while the name stays the same, and then we wouldn't have been saddled with the bloody A, B, C, D, etc.

I completely agree, Chris. As I understand it, the registries in the 1700-range were assigned to Constitution-Class vessels (with maybe a couple of exceptions). It may have made sense to use 1701-A, since it was the second Constitution-Class Enterprise, but the registry for subsequent ships should have reflected the new classes.

Anyway, to get back to the original question: No, they'll probably never stop using the name Enterprise unless they have some landmark reason to retire the name.

Though, I would think that there would be times that Starfleet goes without an Enterprise for a while. Plus, there is no rule that says that the flagship must be named Enterprise (a recent honor only bestowed upon E-D and E-E).

Someone mentioned that the Enterprise must be the best ship because the crews are always doing such wonderful things. But the problem is that, more often than not, we don't get to see what's going on in this world that isn't centered around one Enterprise or another. We can only assume there are many other wonderful adventures being had by many other great characters (like DS9 and VOY).

This is why I'm a big fan of getting away from the Enterprise, or at least pushing it to the back of the stage for the next show.