Articles of the Fed. Question

[Who_Trek]

I love it when you ask a simple question or two, and it blows up into a huge and very interesting thread... KRAD, I'm looking forward to the diatribe with bated breath!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So it was just an urban legend that the original script for ST III involved Romulans?

Then why did it still have a 'Bird of Prey'? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......?

 

[Christopher]

^^No, nobody's disputing the fact that ST III originally featured Romulans. The only thing under dispute is the claim that TNG's portrayals of Klingons and Romulans are "switched around" from how they were portrayed on TOS and that ST III was the direct cause of this.

Many TOS Romulans valued honor, but they were never portrayed as being "obsessed with honor" as a culture. And ST III established that Klingons had the concept of honor (as in Kruge's valediction to Valkris), but it hardly portrayed them as being an honor-fixated people, since Kruge's behavior was pretty treacherous and deceitful.

So it isn't truthful to say that TNG Klingons' obsession with honor was transplanted from the Romulans as a result of ST III. Their honor fixation was really an invention of TNG, done in order to rehabilitate the Klingons and justify them being allies of the Federation in the 24th century.

 

[Timo]

The original "writers' cue" descriptions of the adversary species never did manifest much, did they?

The first time we see the Romulans, they are involved in deceit, backstabbing, internal distrust and a cowardly sneak attack. The two people left in the Star Empire who aren't completely rotten are killed off during this introductory episode. From there, it's downhill with Romulan honor: bribery, treason, violation of treaties... I don't think the word "honor" is ever uttered by any Romulan after "Balance of Terror"!

(Literally - checking the scripts at TrekCore yields only one instance: that of the fake Tomalak in "Future Imperfect" saying that it is an honor to be the first Romulan to get the grand tour of the Enterprise.)

Klingons in turn storm the stage with all the classic traits of affable villains: they are pompous, arrogant, yet disciplined and bound by their own silly rules; they don't fight particularly dirty, and thus are defeated by our sneaky heroes, after which they demonstrate admiration to a worthy opponent. And in the end, they don't particularly manage to hurt or even much inconvenience anybody. Rather than being a cruel Mongol horde, they exude the sympathetic spirit of "Allo, Allo" Nazis in their buffoonish attempt at evil smirking and growling.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Christopher]

Timo said:
The original "writers' cue" descriptions of the adversary species never did manifest much, did they?

The first time we see the Romulans, they are involved in deceit, backstabbing, internal distrust and a cowardly sneak attack. The two people left in the Star Empire who aren't completely rotten are killed off during this introductory episode. From there, it's downhill with Romulan honor: bribery, treason, violation of treaties... I don't think the word "honor" is ever uttered by any Romulan after "Balance of Terror"!

Well, for what it's worth, that Romulan description from TMoST never used the word "honor" at all; it just said "they live their beliefs with great integrity."

And let's not forget, in "The Enterprise Incident" it was Starfleet that was engaged in treachery, theft, and treaty violations. Unless one approaches it with a totally jingoistic, "my country right or wrong" mentality, it's hard not to see the Romulans as the victims there.

Klingons in turn storm the stage with all the classic traits of affable villains: they are pompous, arrogant, yet disciplined and bound by their own silly rules; they don't fight particularly dirty, and thus are defeated by our sneaky heroes, after which they demonstrate admiration to a worthy opponent. And in the end, they don't particularly manage to hurt or even much inconvenience anybody.

We don't know how many vessels were destroyed in the brief war before the Organians stopped it. And the Klingons thought they were killing thousands of Organians; if the Organians had been what they appeared, the death toll would have been enormous. Kras in "Friday's Child" killed a security guard and a couple of Capellans, and probably played a role in instigating the assassination of Teer Akaar. The Klingon agent in "A Private Little War" supplied the villagers with firearms that killed plenty of hill people. And Kang's crew would've killed plenty of the Enterprise crew if the Evil Pinwheel Thingy hadn't brought them back to life.

 

[Sci]

Christopher said:
And let's not forget, in "The Enterprise Incident" it was Starfleet that was engaged in treachery, theft, and treaty violations.

Well, treachery and theft. I don't think the Federation had any treaties with the Romulans to violate apart from entering the Neutral Zone (but then everyone seems to do that).

Unless one approaches it with a totally jingoistic, "my country right or wrong" mentality, it's hard not to see the Romulans as the victims there.

I don't think that's fair. One can easily view the Federation as having the right to take clandestine steps to acquire and thus learn how to neutralize a cloaking device -- a major threat to Federation security -- without believing that that must entail war or that war is preferable to spying. Jingoism implies a desire for war and conflict and combat; favoring espionage, while not peaceable, is not exactly war-mongoring, either.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Just wanted to jump in quickly and say that Articles of the Federation is one of my favorite Trek novels. I wish a sequel would come out, or at least a short story in one of the compilation books. These characters are too good to not be used again.

 

[Christopher]

Jingoism doesn't mean warmongering per se. It means extremist nationalism, particularly that favoring an aggressive foreign policy and preparedness for war, but that's not necessarily the same as pushing to start a war. More broadly, it just means a chauvinistic nationalism, a belief in the superiority of one's own nation and its right to do whatever it wants to other nations.

 

[Mysterion]

Babaganoosh said:
So it was just an urban legend that the original script for ST III involved Romulans?

Nope. Have a copy of the outline of "Return to Genesis" (IIRC) which features pretty much the same plot as TSFS, but with Romulans as the adversary instead of Klingons.

 

[Sci]

Christopher said:
Jingoism doesn't mean warmongering per se. It means extremist nationalism, particularly that favoring an aggressive foreign policy and preparedness for war, but that's not necessarily the same as pushing to start a war. More broadly, it just means a chauvinistic nationalism, a belief in the superiority of one's own nation and its right to do whatever it wants to other nations.

Fair enough -- but even there, the events of "The Enterprise Incident" need not necessarily be assumed to have been prompted by nationalism. A belief that your state has a right to defend itself in certain extreme situations, even if by taking otherwise unethical methods, does not automatically equate extreme nationalism.

 

[Trent Roman]

^ Depends how generously one defines that right to defence, and what qualifies as 'extreme' threats to that purpose. Just because the rhetorics of danger and self-defence are appealed to doesn't justify actions taken.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Captaindemotion]

Christopher said:
Jingoism doesn't mean warmongering per se. It means extremist nationalism, particularly that favoring an aggressive foreign policy and preparedness for war, but that's not necessarily the same as pushing to start a war. More broadly, it just means a chauvinistic nationalism, a belief in the superiority of one's own nation and its right to do whatever it wants to other nations.

IIRC, the term originated in a slogan used by British mobs in either the 18th or 19th century:

'We shall fight, and by jingo, we shall be right!'

Or something like that anyway. Long time since I heard the explanation.