Spoilers Arrow - Season 5

[Commander Richard]

Ollie's stint as mayor along with his final year on the island (or rather, in Russia) will be chronicled (I'll bet he returns home with a wig). We also have Diggle who re-enlisted in the military and Quentin Lance who ran off with Felicity's mom after losing his job as a cop. How will all of this affect the characters and Team Arrow next season? What do you hope to see? A lot of people, including Stephen Amell want a return to basics and the more grounded brand of storytelling we got in the first season, so hopefully we'll get that.

As for the villain, a bit of news came in.

TVLine has learned exclusively that the CW drama’s upcoming fifth season will introduce a new villain loosely inspired by Idris Elba’s Wire drug kingpin Stringer Bell. The character, tentatively named “Anton Church,” is a ruthless crime lord who sets out to fill the sizable void left by Damien Darhk and H.I.V.E. The initial casting notice describes him as an “apex predator” who “cuts his way through the shadows” by taking down “the biggest threat first.” (Um, he’s looking at you, Ollie Q.) While the role is being likened to Elba’s classic Wire baddie, the breakdown also references ex-Game of Thrones actor Jason Momoa as a physical prototype.
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[Commander Richard]

With the news of the Season 5 villain could Arrow be conceding defeat and just make up their own villain, or is this a misdirection and we might see someone like Black Mask show up next season?

I wouldn't mind seeing Kobra, Lady Shiva, Cheshire, Lady Vic, Prometheus, or Wrath on the show at some point. And an adaptation of Jeff Lemire's Outsiders War could be a way to shake things up outside of the standard city in danger story.

A new original villain would be nice.

 

[Mr Light]

After fighting a guy with magic powers, some rando crime lord is going to be horrifically disappointing. And flashbacks about being in a Russian mob or summat sounds intensely uninteresting. I hate it when shows go big in one year, then "back to basics" in the next. I didn't like the basics. I liked the big.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Wait a minute. Back to "basics". Season 5?

That sounds suspiciously like what happened to Earth Final Conflict and Andromeda

 

[TemporalFlux]

I don't think the majority see it this way, but the season four finale really felt like a series finale to me. It reminded me of how some series ended in the comics at the conclusion of Crisis back in 1986.

I still don't believe it off the table that we'll get a wholesale reboot after the events in the season finale of Flash

 

[Mr Light]

I did think Season 4's finale could have been the series ending, yeah. He fought his biggest villain ever, he became the Mayor, he ended his flashbacks on the Island* (*yeah yeah he goes to Russia next. but he was LEFT ALONE ON THE ISLAND!) Everybody leaves except Felicity. There was a real sense of finality about it all.

 

[DarKush]

I hadn't thought about how finale the season 4 finale could be. Then again, I don't know if they will take the opportunity to reboot and revive the series in season 5. I'm mixed about the back to basics approach. I get it because I mean where can you go in terms of power after Darhk? Now you are moving into cosmic level Apokolips-level villains.

So in that sense back to basics, getting back to seasons 1 & 2 would be welcome. That being said, as I mentioned before, Arrow has squandered a lot of villains that could have fit for the more back to basics approach already. I just wish that they had kept it simple in season 3 and held back threats like Ra's and Darhk until later, building up the show and Team Arrow to get to that level. I think they jumped the gun and now they don't know what to do. And I can see some fans feeling that the news about season 5 will be underwhelming in light of season 4's potential nuclear annihilation story. How are they going to top that? It feels like Arrow has fallen into the trap of having to top itself each season.

Which is a shame, because if the show had been a bit more true to the source material, they could've delved a little bit more into politics and made it a weightier, more complex show that could then sustain this switch to "The Wire" style villain. I never watched "The Wire" but from what I read, it seemed to be a complicated, complex show that explored Baltimore on various levels. I'm not sure it shied away from politics or not, but it seems with comics Oliver being of a liberal bent (with Ben Percy now having Oliver declare himself to be a social justice warrior even), that the issues/politics-free mayoral campaign of season 4 was a missed opportunity to reset the show, and make it more topical and give it something to say.

Of course that would invite criticism and controversy and perhaps even date the show, so I get why the writers didn't go that route, but still, it just feels like a wasted opportunity to set Arrow apart from other superhero shows.

 

[Christopher]

Wait a minute. Back to "basics". Season 5?

That sounds suspiciously like what happened to Earth Final Conflict and Andromeda

What happened with those shows was that the only reason they were renewed for fifth seasons at all was because the studio wanted to get them over the supposed 100-episode "magic number" for rerun syndication (plenty of shows have been syndicated with fewer episodes, but 100 or more is considered the most cost-effective), so rather than cancelling the failing shows, they made one last season as cheaply and half-heartedly as possible, as little more than a business write-off. They were already losing money, but they figured that if they could invest just a little more money on a final season -- as little as possible -- then it would improve their chances of making the money back in the long run with syndication and DVD sales. That was the mentality of that particular studio, always putting the bottom line first at the expense of quality, which entailed frequently firing showrunners and cast members and bringing in cheaper replacements, as well as demanding more lowbrow and low-budget storytelling, and thereby sending the storylines in constantly shifting new directions.

This is hardly a comparable situation -- the show's ratings are still reasonable, the same staff appears to be in place, and the production company is more established and reputable and doesn't already have a history of screwing over the show. So if they say they're getting back to basics for story reasons, that's probably the truth, and it shouldn't be anything like the strictly mercenary, bean-counter-driven changes in the final seasons of the Tribune Roddenberry shows.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Wait a minute. Back to "basics". Season 5?

That sounds suspiciously like what happened to Earth Final Conflict and Andromeda

I see more similarities with B5.
Everyone leaving, Oliver becoming the head of local government, the biggest baddie and universal destruction avoided.
Next we see him dealing with wannabe villains trying to be the new top tog, a new cultish group of hippie super vigilantes trying to do a complete violence free approach to crime fighting and then The season gets good and Ollie goes into the light 20 years later when Star City gets retired and blown up...

 

[Morpheus 02]

What happened with those shows was that the only reason they were renewed for fifth seasons at all was because the studio wanted to get them over the supposed 100-episode "magic number" for rerun syndication (plenty of shows have been syndicated with fewer episodes, but 100 or more is considered the most cost-effective), so rather than cancelling the failing shows, they made one last season as cheaply and half-heartedly as possible, as little more than a business write-off. They were already losing money, but they figured that if they could invest just a little more money on a final season -- as little as possible -- then it would improve their chances of making the money back in the long run with syndication and DVD sales. That was the mentality of that particular studio, always putting the bottom line first at the expense of quality, which entailed frequently firing showrunners and cast members and bringing in cheaper replacements, as well as demanding more lowbrow and low-budget storytelling, and thereby sending the storylines in constantly shifting new directions.

This is hardly a comparable situation -- the show's ratings are still reasonable, the same staff appears to be in place, and the production company is more established and reputable and doesn't already have a history of screwing over the show. So if they say they're getting back to basics for story reasons, that's probably the truth, and it shouldn't be anything like the strictly mercenary, bean-counter-driven changes in the final seasons of the Tribune Roddenberry shows.

Sorry -- forgot to add [sarcasm] joke [/sarcasm]

I know it was a different era & circumstances... but on a superficial level, and the internet tendency to be super-negative on things unseen based on minor "facts"...c'mon now...you gotta laugh at the similarities


On the non-sarcastic side, if they can do character moments & interactions... and have down-to-earth stories that are relevant & thought provoing, I won't miss the over the-top stakes they've been raising.

 

[Christopher]

I know it was a different era & circumstances... but on a superficial level, and the internet tendency to be super-negative on things unseen based on minor "facts"...c'mon now...you gotta laugh at the similarities

I don't see a similarity. Nothing about the E:FC and Andromeda fifth seasons constituted "getting back to basics." They were both such drastic revamps that they were practically different shows, especially in the case of E:FC. That's the opposite of getting back to basics.

On the non-sarcastic side, if they can do character moments & interactions... and have down-to-earth stories that are relevant & thought provoing, I won't miss the over the-top stakes they've been raising.

I can definitely agree with that. As Captain America: Civil War showed, the best way to "go bigger" is to raise the personal stakes for the characters and the emotional investment of the audience, not just the physical scale of the action.

 

[Frontier]

I hope this next season is better than the last. Found myself really having to force watching the last half of the season.

And I hope the flashbacks get good again, too. I liked them the first 1/2 years, but not since. They really should have kept him on the Island or something, lol.

Also would like Ollie to stop being as brooding. Some brooding, yes, ok, its who he is. But he's Arrow, not Batman! He needs to have about 20% more jokes, quips, good moments spliced amongst the brooding. 80% is enough.

IDK, I think with Berlanti & crew helming so many series, they've just left the lesser skilled to run Arrow as they expand their proverbial empire and the shows suffering for it.

 

[Christopher]

But he's Arrow, not Batman!

The TV folks can't use Batman, so Green Arrow is their surrogate Batman. Smallville did the same thing.

And heck, for the first few decades of his existence, Green Arrow was basically nothing but a Batman clone. He was a millionaire crimefighter with a teen sidekick, he had themed gagets and an Arrowmobile and an Arrowcave, etc. He didn't really develop a distinct personality until they made him a left-wing social activist in the '70s. Although I agree I'd like to see more of that Ollie in the show's version. Supergirl hasn't been afraid to be outspokenly liberal, but Oliver wasn't allowed to have any specific positions even when he was running for mayor.

 

[theenglish]

I hope this next season is better than the last. Found myself really having to force watching the last half of the season..

I agree. I really liked the first half of this season, maybe up until February or whenever they rescued Ollie's son and took the idol. Everything after that just seemed added on to me, and I really hated killing off Canary after she had finally become an interesting character.

 

[dahj]

This last season was very haphazard, and overall I'd say the weakest one yet in the entire Arrowverse by a significant margin. Which is a shame because it did start rather decent but an apparent lack of planning(like the grave mystery) and communication in the writers room derailed the whole season.

There were several instances where it seemed like writers didn't know what others were doing, like the time when Diggle learns not to give into anger and kill Ruve Darhk in one episode, and then kills his brother in the very next one? Or Donna Smoak giving a lecture on how "there are no small lies" to Quentin, and then the very next episode we find out she lied to Felicity her whole life about her father?
The whole "lying is bad" and "hope/darkness" motifs were so overdone and so in your face they became tedious and repetitive.

Flashbacks were also mostly unconnected to individual stories, and overall Baron Reiter and Damien Darhk were essentially the same villain which again just made it feel repetitive.

Regarding the "back to basics" talk, I don't think magic itself was the problem, but the way they used it was also poorly thought out. Darhk was unstoppable from the get go, he deflected arrows, force choked people over Skype and stuff so the whole "he needs more power" angle didn't seem impactful because even after the nuke went off he didn't seem that much more powerful. They should have made him slightly less powerful at the start and built him up as a threat throughout the season.

Having said that, I am all for a more grounded approach next season, I'd like to see a more street level show with hopefully some social and political undertones, I'm just not sure the current writing team there has the chops to deliver something that isn't a wholly unsubtle caricature of the issues.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Rick Gonzalez to recur - cast as Wild Dog -- http://tvline.com/2016/06/15/arrow-rick-gonzalez-wild-dog-season-5-cast/

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Wow. That's a very obscure one.

 

[Icemizer]

Well Wild Dog does fit in with the more street level concept for season 5. I only vaguely remember his mini series, looks like I will have to dig through some long boxes tonight.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I know of Wild Dog from the loose leaf Who's Who in the DC Universe which came out when I started reading comics. Curious choice considering he seems so similar to Casey Jones. Who Stephen Amell himself just played in the new Ninja Turtles movie.

 

[theenglish]

dodge, I agree with everything you've said there. I am wondering if Arrow suffered this year because Berlanti has spread himself a little too thin over four shows?