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"Arrival" directed by Denis Villeneuve

I wonder how the heptapod language works that it would enable a human brain to sense time differently and gives humans memories of things that haven't happened yet.

Here we go:

They say "your whole life flashes before your eyes" in the moment of your death, though this happens within a few seconds when it happens you experience it in a different time scale, sort of like when dreaming.

What if you're not living your life right now but are experiencing your memories as your life flashes before your eyes in your moment of death? This means all of the memories you have and will have are accessible to you and you just don't know it, the heptapod alien "language"/way of thinking lets your currently dying brain to access all of its memories at once to experience non-linear time in stead of experiencing the memories lineally to when they were made.

MindBlown.gif
 
I was impressed. Not particularly a fan of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis but if you suspend disbelief for that, it fits together and the "twist" is brilliant. Genuinely smart and mind-bending, with some of the most impressively alien "aliens" I've ever seen in any film.
 
Why should anyone choose to have a child in the knowledge that life involves suffering followed by inevitable demise? You don't need to have a crystal ball to know that.
 
Why should anyone choose to have a child in the knowledge that life involves suffering followed by inevitable demise? You don't need to have a crystal ball to know that.

I was about to debate you until I realised you were arguing for why Adams' still went ahead with the pregnancy...at least I think you were. This thread makes my head hurt more than the film! :lol:
 
The short story includes an explanation of why Louise does not attempt to change the future. The movie omits any discussion of the nature of free will in a deterministic universe. The short story's description of the daughter's fate makes Louise's moral ambiguity seem even greater.
 
The short story includes an explanation of why Louise does not attempt to change the future. The movie omits any discussion of the nature of free will in a deterministic universe. The short story's description of the daughter's fate makes Louise's moral ambiguity seem even greater.

Yes, it says basically that real future knowledge is only possible without free will. Either you have that knowledge or the illusion that you are free in your decissions.
 
Why should anyone choose to have a child in the knowledge that life involves suffering followed by inevitable demise? You don't need to have a crystal ball to know that.

More importantly, why would someone choose to have that child with someone for whom there are no visible romantic sparks? I mean, it felt like a borderline sperm-bank decision. That was really my main problem with the movie. The child aspect served as a metaphor and didn't really feel natural.
 
I suspect Louise was lonely and frustrated and Ian was available. People in real life choose to have children in the knowledge that they might likely inherit some potentially fatal condition. The urge to procreate is strong.
 
I think the movie just did a poor job of showing the chemistry growing between them. They likely worked closely with one another for a good period of time; we're probably talking several weeks if not a couple months because they did have to learn, and teach, an entire language with no commonality between the two worlds and at the same time places around the world apparently were learning the language through playing Chess, Mahjong and other methods that's hardly going to net strong communicative results. How do you go from "King's Rook to Queen's Bishop's Pawn 3." to "Hey, my name is Bob Alien and here's a part of a plan for a weapon!"

So, Ian and Louise likely did build a relationship and connection we just didn't get the benefit of seeing because, really, the focus wasn't on their relationship and more on this history/future with the daughter. There are elements of "chemistry" between the two there like when he shows concern over her when she's unconscious and workplace chemistry as he reveals having decoded some of the duodenary-agram.
 
I just wonder how learning the written language could have these effects. If i draw a circle and pretend that it stand for my whole life, i wouldn't get memories from the future. I could only see the presence of the heptapods having an telepathic effect that unlocks a hidden potential of the human brain.
 
Just saw this last night. I enjoyed it, but I think it's funny this is considered intelligent/intellectual/cerebral ect. Hollywood puts out so many dumb movies, that Arrival looks smart in comparison–when actually it's not.

We should all be rooting for this movie to do really well at the box office. Paramount is the distributor. Maybe they'll realize science fiction doesn't have to be mega budgeted with a bunch of action in order to be successful.
 
I would much rather have films like this than yet another reboot, remake, Star Wars or movies that are part of franchises. I like those movies to an extent but I also like Veriety and every single news item on sites like comingsoon.net is another remake or something.
 
Hollywood puts out so many dumb movies, that Arrival looks smart in comparison–when actually it's not.

:vulcan:

This is just another variant from the 'this movies is overrated!' school of criticism, isn't it?

I would much rather have films like this than yet another reboot, remake, Star Wars or movies that are part of franchises. I like those movies to an extent but I also like Veriety and every single news item on sites like comingsoon.net is another remake or something.

I saw this, then near-immediately walked into the next theatre to see Underworld 5.

Talk about 'variety.' :lol: It was like pairing up 'Chinatown' with 'Carnosaur 3'.
 
I just wonder how learning the written language could have these effects.

I wouldn't take it literally. It's a movie and they took the thesis and moved it into fantasy territory for dramatic effect.

That being said, if you do a lot of reading about the nature of time it will really blow your mind. The arrow of time itself is in large part just a mental construct. Doctor Strange covered similar territory, just in more of a pulpy way.
 
Either I'd go with my "theory" above or hand-wave and say the aliens "did something" to Adams's character to think of time non-linerally and that it's not strictly an aspect of learning their language. Or perhaps, it's not necessarily something everyone can do, maybe she had a high enough IQ that she's in an elite 3% of human beings on the planet able to expand their mind enough in thinking in this language in order for it to have non-linear time effects. Everyone else would just learn the language enough to be able to communicate but not to think 4-dimensionally.

Because there was a bit of a "hiccup" in how that's explained. They say something like that when the aliens "write a sentence" (or equivalent to the circular formations they made" they had to know how the phrase ended in order to present it.

Which, er,.... Yeah?

Isn't that how sentences work?! I mean it may happen so quickly in our minds or subtly that you're not conscious of it but there's plenty of times when speaking you have to know what you're going to say before you actually say something.

In English, for example, take the articles a or an to know which one of these to use you have to know what the next word in the sentence is going to be and, somehow, we're able to do this instantly when speaking even if we've not fully thought out what we're going to say. You don't consciously think "Ok, I'm going to say a word that stars with a vowel-sound so I need to use "an." in British English it's the same thing when ending a word that ends with a vowel with an "R" sound if the next word is going to start with a vowel. So, simply speaking, even speaking English means you've got to be able to think a second or so into the future.

Other languages have examples like this to when they assign genders to nouns and the gender of that noun can have an impact on the articles or prepositions before it. Again, requiring someone speaking off the cuff to have to be able to think a moment into the future without realizing it.

Now, it's a stretch to say this but there must be "something" about the heptapod "language" that just gives them this much more of look into the future but, still, seems to me that'd require some "biological" component that makes these beings 4-dimensional ones, something beyond their language.
 
I love both, the movie and the short story.
I just wish there had been more information about the writing system and their "spoken" language in the movie.

By the way, i would really like to see the release of a heptapod dictionary either on the web and/or as a tie-in to buy.
 
It was said there appeared to be no correlation between their "spoken" language and their written one, it could be that their spoken language has elements to it that cannot be reproduced or processed by humans because the differences are two subtle or irregular to figure out. It's like communicating with whales, their "songs" may be a form of communication but it's not one we can likely every figure out or reproduce with our own voices. Not to even mix in the fact the heptapods spoke in a "non linear" way so their vocalizations may be way too complex given their form of communication to even figure out.
 
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