Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

[TOSTNGDS9VOYENT]

The Navy dominates scifi but why? Frankly I'm sick of seeing the navy in outer space riding the cosmic oceans. The navy dominates scifi but I'm not just referring to stuff like 2000 Leagues Under the Sea or Seaquest DSV you got big navy ships in Buck Rogers, Confederation Navy from the Wing Commander, the Navy command structure in Star Trek. Almost every scifi got captains and petty officers and admirals and officer cadets and commodores and boats and sea dogs and pirates. Just check it! It's all in tv shows like andromeda, battlestar and straczynski's crusade (B5 maybe not so much but there is still a good chunk of Navy) and most scifi movies have the navy. Why oh Why I think its over done. Why were they still using Navy structure in DS9 since I thought it was supposed to be a SPACE STATION not a sea vessel. Look at space exploration in our real history! Whenever the Navy got involved they mostly flopped, losing out to the Soviets producing the first "flopnik" while Russia got to put the first man in space and the first satellite. Yes we beat the commies to the Moon with Apollo11. WHOOOoooOTT ! but as I read it most of the people in space didn't come from the USN but came from the Air Force or Marines Corps. Armstrong and Shepard are the two I can think of from the Navy but if you ask me I would read 9 out of 10 of people in space are not navy. Today the people in NASA also come from the Air Force or Corps or have PHDs with science and geology backgrounds and we have the private sector getting into space now that we have this space tourism thing starting. Russia's Navy recently wanted to get some money launching old Soviet navy rockets into space for private donors like Sagan's planetary exploration society. Once again a navy produced another flopnick, rocket goes boom! and the planetary society lost their space probe. IMHO what the whole mindset boils down to is Christopher Columbus (NASA named one of the Shuttles after him even though the Shuttle looks nothing like a ship). If Columbus had "discovered" America by going via hot air balloon or going across the pole on foot and sledge I think our whole perception of exploration would be different in scifi. Personally I'm sick of the navy in space

First of all, they never named a shuttle the Columbus. They call it Columbus, because he was an explorer, not because he was on a sea faring ship. I think your refering to one of the new CEV capsules. Secondly, who the heck cares if they use navy terms for spacecraft? Is it any better to use a ground based army rank system? Afterall, they are called spaceSHIPS! Space is a lot like an ocean. Should we call them space airplanes instead? That wouldn't make much sense either, would it? I'd hate to see what you'd say to the Air forces idea of bringing back airships, oops, I mean blimps, for ground support missions. Just because the ranks are the same doesn't mean its THE NAVY from the ocean. Its the same rank system. Besides, todays forces are multipurpose. The navy has its own air force for one thing. So do the marines, but heck, they aren't pilots, are they, they're jugheads with M-4's, right? Wrong! I'm sure a navy or marine pilot would be insulted if they thought it wasn't proper for them to fly planes because of it being in the wrong service for flying.

What eles would you call people in a starFLEET? Astronaut junior grade? Astronaut Senior grade? Astronaut command grade?

 

[Admiral2]

The Navy dominates scifi but why? Frankly I'm sick of seeing the navy in outer space riding the cosmic oceans. The navy dominates scifi but I'm not just referring to stuff like 2000 Leagues Under the Sea or Seaquest DSV you got big navy ships in Buck Rogers, Confederation Navy from the Wing Commander, the Navy command structure in Star Trek. Almost every scifi got captains and petty officers and admirals and officer cadets and commodores and boats and sea dogs and pirates. Just check it! It's all in tv shows like andromeda, battlestar and straczynski's crusade (B5 maybe not so much but there is still a good chunk of Navy) and most scifi movies have the navy. Why oh Why I think its over done. Why were they still using Navy structure in DS9 since I thought it was supposed to be a SPACE STATION not a sea vessel. Look at space exploration in our real history! Whenever the Navy got involved they mostly flopped, losing out to the Soviets producing the first "flopnik" while Russia got to put the first man in space and the first satellite. Yes we beat the commies to the Moon with Apollo11. WHOOOoooOTT ! but as I read it most of the people in space didn't come from the USN but came from the Air Force or Marines Corps. Armstrong and Shepard are the two I can think of from the Navy but if you ask me I would read 9 out of 10 of people in space are not navy. Today the people in NASA also come from the Air Force or Corps or have PHDs with science and geology backgrounds and we have the private sector getting into space now that we have this space tourism thing starting. Russia's Navy recently wanted to get some money launching old Soviet navy rockets into space for private donors like Sagan's planetary exploration society. Once again a navy produced another flopnick, rocket goes boom! and the planetary society lost their space probe. IMHO what the whole mindset boils down to is Christopher Columbus (NASA named one of the Shuttles after him even though the Shuttle looks nothing like a ship). If Columbus had "discovered" America by going via hot air balloon or going across the pole on foot and sledge I think our whole perception of exploration would be different in scifi. Personally I'm sick of the navy in space

Sorry. Gotta totally disagree.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Which other service operates in large, indepedant vessels for months if not years at a time? The Army? The Air Force? The Marines? The Coast Guard? No. The Navy does, however, and it's been working for literally centuries now. So why the hell shouldn't they model space travel after naval traditions?

 

[Star Wolf]

Which other service operates in large, indepedant vessels for months if not years at a time? The Army? The Air Force? The Marines? The Coast Guard? No. The Navy does, however, and it's been working for literally centuries now. So why the hell shouldn't they model space travel after naval traditions?

However many space opera have the grand Federations, Commenwealths etc. And the spacecraft are not in deep space or transit but orbitting the story planet and its people. The frontier army which works with and against civil authority works just as well as a template.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Perhaps you didn't read my last sentence. Particularly the words "space travel," which is what most space operas revolve around to one degree or another.

In all practicality, there should be different services in the future just like there are now. Complaining about naval-based space faring is pretty silly, however, as it fits far more than any other organized system currently in existance. The only time it could be argued to be inappropriate is in shows with a single ship with a small crew doing deep space exploration, in which case NASA's current system (borrowed from the Air Force) makes a lot more sense.

But if there's literally fleets of space-faring military vessels, the Navy has the market cornered. Rightfully so.

 

[Star Wolf]

Perhaps you didn't read my last sentence. Particularly the words "space travel," which is what most space operas revolve around to one degree or another.

In all practicality, there should be different services in the future just like there are now. Complaining about naval-based space faring is pretty silly, however, as it fits far more than any other organized system currently in existance. The only time it could be argued to be inappropriate is in shows with a single ship with a small crew doing deep space exploration, in which case NASA's current system (borrowed from the Air Force) makes a lot more sense.

But if there's literally fleets of space-faring military vessels, the Navy has the market cornered. Rightfully so.

Consider this. Most shows have magic Stargates, Slipstreams, Warps etc. For story purposes the transit is irrevalent excedpt to explain how you get from one life supporting planet to another. The time can be a blink of an eye or you can say x amount of time passed during the comercial break.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Consider this. Most shows have magic Stargates, Slipstreams, Warps etc. For story purposes the transit is irrevalent excedpt to explain how you get from one life supporting planet to another. The time can be a blink of an eye or you can say x amount of time passed during the comercial break.

Let's see, there's Stargate and... uhm. That's about it. The other methods you mentioned are to explain how faster-than-light space travel occurs. With space ships that are used to explore, patrol, and/or defend large multi-system organizations in a clearly military fashion.

Of the military organizations currently in existance, the Navy is the most practical model to use. The Army doesn't deal with that sort of thing. The Air Force doesn't deal with that sort of thing. The Marines only deal with that sort of thing when working with the Navy. And etc.

If Star Trek wasn't about starships comprised of a huge number of military personnel but instead was a handful of people jumping from planet to planet with a warp-generating wrist-watch, your complaint might be valid. But then it wouldn't be Star Trek so much as a Stargate knock-off, wouldn't it?

It's one thing to be tired of shows revolving around space travel. It's another thing entirely to complain about such shows using an organization system that's completely and utterly appropriate.

 

[Mutara Nebula 1967]

Must be an Army man.

 

[blaXXer]

The Navy dominates scifi but why? Frankly I'm sick of seeing the navy in outer space riding the cosmic oceans. The navy dominates scifi but I'm not just referring to stuff like 2000 Leagues Under the Sea or Seaquest DSV you got big navy ships in Buck Rogers, Confederation Navy from the Wing Commander, the Navy command structure in Star Trek. Almost every scifi got captains and petty officers and admirals and officer cadets and commodores and boats and sea dogs and pirates. Just check it! It's all in tv shows like andromeda, battlestar and straczynski's crusade (B5 maybe not so much but there is still a good chunk of Navy) and most scifi movies have the navy. Why oh Why I think its over done. Why were they still using Navy structure in DS9 since I thought it was supposed to be a SPACE STATION not a sea vessel. Look at space exploration in our real history! Whenever the Navy got involved they mostly flopped, losing out to the Soviets producing the first "flopnik" while Russia got to put the first man in space and the first satellite. Yes we beat the commies to the Moon with Apollo11. WHOOOoooOTT ! but as I read it most of the people in space didn't come from the USN but came from the Air Force or Marines Corps. Armstrong and Shepard are the two I can think of from the Navy but if you ask me I would read 9 out of 10 of people in space are not navy. Today the people in NASA also come from the Air Force or Corps or have PHDs with science and geology backgrounds and we have the private sector getting into space now that we have this space tourism thing starting. Russia's Navy recently wanted to get some money launching old Soviet navy rockets into space for private donors like Sagan's planetary exploration society. Once again a navy produced another flopnick, rocket goes boom! and the planetary society lost their space probe. IMHO what the whole mindset boils down to is Christopher Columbus (NASA named one of the Shuttles after him even though the Shuttle looks nothing like a ship). If Columbus had "discovered" America by going via hot air balloon or going across the pole on foot and sledge I think our whole perception of exploration would be different in scifi. Personally I'm sick of the navy in space

paragraphs are your friend.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Personally I'm more tired of seeing sci-fi in the navy.

 

[blaXXer]

Damn, gotta love giant railguns

 

[Neroon]

paragraphs are your friend.

as is judicious quoting.

 

[sojourner]

Honestly, is the OP serious? The arguement he presents keeps switching from objecting to the terminology used for portraying ranks to the actual use of a command hierarchy based on the navy. I mean, what other basic structure is there? in all of the armed forces orders come from the top down, regardless of title. The command pyramid is still the same basic shape regardless of how many people make up the structure. Whether you have a crew of 3 or 300, someone is in charge.
If you think about it, the only real difference between civilian comand structure and military is in how people get assigned to a position and the consequences of disobeying an order.
Complaining about navy structure in Sci-Fi is akin to saying I am tired of buying all my cars in blue. Seek out what you prefer. hundreds of sci-fi stories, movies, and shows are produced each year. Switch to Dr. Who.

 

[Ultimale]

I'm sorry, but this "argument" just seems hollow and pointless. Is the structure really all that important? Let me help you here: not particularly. It's the stories that matter. They'd be either good or shitty whether it's a naval structure or another military or even non-military based structure. Look at Star Wars. Doesn't really rely on the naval structure. Those guys aren't really the heroes, and while some are villains, we don't see a lot of them. But does the shitty Star Wars result from this? By no means. Nor the shitty Trek, nor the good Trek from a lack of this structure. And DS9 uses the military structure of STARFLEET because it's a military installation run by STARFLEET. And Kira Nerys, the XO, was a major in her world's military. So I fail to see where any of this is going...

 

[Jedi Marso]

You could easily fly a spaceship without the Navy, for the basics all you need is a launch pad, a control tower and a worthy ship. Michael Collins flew Apollo 11, his launch pad was KSC Flordia, the Control Center in Houston and his ship was the Lunar Command Module. He was a pilot in the USAF not the Navy! and yes my thread is also complaining about the nature of modern scifi in general since I don't think traders or builders on any future Mars colony would really need the Navy for all of their daily activities. The navy command structure would be too rigid just get in their way

Hate to break it to you, but:

First American in space: Alan Shepherd, Naval Aviator
First American to orbit the Earth: John Glen, Naval (Marine) Aviator
First Man on the moon: Neil Armstrong, former Naval Aviator
First Crew of the Space Shuttle: John Young and Bob Crippen: BOTH Naval Aviators
First Man to make an untethered space walk: Captain Bruce McCandless, U.S. NAVY. (Naval Aviator)

See the pattern here, holmes?