Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by SG-17, Feb 1, 2020.
Can we see Sovereign class ships on TV, directly reference film-only characters, etc now?
I don't believe there ever was any restriction on movie references on TV Trek; I think that was a myth. There have been movie elements in Discovery -- Ceti eels, Marc Okrand's Klingon language, the concept of katras, Earth Spacedock (glimpsed under construction in the season 1 finale), a version of the Saurian design from TMP.
Also, Picard's backstory is largely shaped by the aftermath of the Romulan supernova established in the 2009 film. So clearly there are no restrictions now, if there ever were.
The reason we never saw Sovereign-class ships on TV was the same reason we never saw a Constitution-class ship in TNG, the same reason we never saw an Intrepid-class ship besides Voyager until DS9 did an episode that needed to use VGR's sets -- because the producers didn't want to confuse the audience with a too-familiar ship design that they might mistake for the Enterprise or Voyager. At that time, everything was still one company; the CBS/Paramount schism didn't happen until the start of 2006.
Only lawyers can know for sure. And even then they could probably argue the other case.
Ha, what a coincidence. Someone just posted this on Twitter and it came across my timeline.
Guess it's not an issue anymore.
The reason why we never saw the Constitution on TNG is because the filming model was a heavy, finicky beast that was hard to shoot, especially on a TV budget. It needed a rehab every time they pulled it out of the crate.
Then again, people kept trashing it during shoots (aside from TMP itself) so that reputation may not entirely be earned.
The original 6-foot E-D model was just as cumbersome, but they still used it (at least until they replaced it with the 4-footer that had different proportions so it looked weird when they cut between them). And they could always have built a new model of the refit Constitution if they'd wanted. The Stargazer was going to be that class at first, but they made it a new class instead and built a new model for that. And they later built a new model of the TOS Enterprise for "Tribble-ations."
A myth shared by the Discovery writers themselves during season one. So whatever the truth was/is, the confusion went high up enough to impact the stories. I really do hope it's all settled now.
There are models of the E and the Cousteau in Picard's archive vault
Being careful about spoilers here, but
A model Sovereign, as well as a second model of the Enterprise-E "Captain's Yacht", are visible in the background of a museum scene in Picard's first episode.
So I'm guessing there's no issue.
Except DSC did include movie elements like Ceti eels and Spacedock.
The storyline of Picard conclusively proves there's no issue now, if there ever was.
They really should have known better. If there were indeed a restriction preventing the TV shows from using something from the movies, that would mean they couldn't use the Klingon language since that originates from the movies. And if there's one thing Disco definitely used plenty of in the first season, it's the Klingon language.
But then this and the whole 25% thing prove just what a state of utter and complete covfefe Disco was in behind the scenes back then.
Exactly. It's not getting the correct answer in the end, it's that the poor writers (and artists) weren't properly communicated their boundaries with regards to writing Trek - and the product likely suffered as a result.
As of 2019, the majority stakeholder (large owner) now owns the Star Trek franchise in its entirety.
Star Trek Discovery was released in 2017.
Written by December 2018:
Written by August 2019:
All that is interesting but not relevant to the comment I made that you quoted. The "25% thing" I spoke of refers to a comment John Eaves made on his Facebook account claiming that when Disco brought in something from previous Treks, they were required by CBS to make it look 25% different for legal and/or marketing reasons. CBS jumped on that within a day of the post being made and stated there was no truth to the claim whatsoever. Eaves then deleted his Facebook account and stayed away from his other social media accounts for a period of several months.
There were still movie references even while TNG was produced.
The events of STAR TARK VI were referenced in "Unification".
Some Genesis wave screenshots were used in "The Schizoid Man".
The Klingon Bird of Prey, which first appeared in STAR TREK III, has been used many times.
There are more examples, but it's clear movie stuff could be used during the tv series' run.
I answered the OPs question what the ownership status of Star Trek property by showing when negotiations started and to what end.
There was an overlap of Disco S1/S2 production and the negotiations and your Eaves comment was made exactly during that time.
Blindness cannot be cured, indeed.
a) You wrote, that writer believed the thing. b) CBS denied it.
c) The February 2018 comment (https://trekmovie.com/2018/02/18/st...ain-pike-klingons-having-two-organs-and-more/) about writers having concerns about right issues reinforces the notion that writers of DISCO felt handicapped.
d) The OP asked for what's the status of rights issues.
And the connection is:
Ownership (b, d) --> property (b, d) --> legal bounds (b, d) --> task given to writers --> writers (mis)interpretation (a, b, c) --> writers venting on Facebook (a) --> the myth (a)
Situations have changed by August 2019.
Since the ownership is now unified, writer confusion shouldn't be a problem anymore. QED, end of lecture.
Well, of course, because it was all one studio back then. It wasn't split into two studios until the start of 2006, after Enterprise ended. So the question only applies to things produced between January 2006 and December 2019, because that's the only period in which the TV and movie properties were in different hands. Which means that the only Trek television show where it's even a question is Discovery.
And how in the world could you measure if a model or idea was 25% different? Silly.
How? A thousand paralegals typing away on a thousand word processors.
Easy. If something is 50% different, it's halfway between the "original" and a new thing, sharing many elements between two ideas. If it's 25%, it's halfway between a 50% difference and the original.
Eaves had been instructed to make a ship that looked mostly like the original, but then halfway different, and then halfway to the original. Sharing design elements with Discovery, but mostly with TOS.
He was only talking about the Enterprise, and the reasoning from on high was probably not to cause a whiplash in design lineage, which would've happened if they used the Star Trek Continues ship or something.
25% isn't some android-level measurement of all the design elements measured against a base model. It's just shorthand for "mostly the same". It's not meant to be taken exactly literal, by fans, paralegals, or art designers.
Separate names with a comma.