Are there any Section 31 books worth buying?
- Thread starter flux_29
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An assertion not supported by the evidence.
Calling Section 31 "evil" is to clothe them completely in black. I tend to see a hell of a lot of gray there...
I'm not really a believer in gray areas. My worldview is pretty much B&W all the time: You are either good or evil. Can't be both. And since Section 31 (in all other timeframes but ENT) can hardly qualify as the good guys...well, you do the math.
It's a BS claim. Any threat Section 31 can stop, the Federation proper can stop. There's may be a question about the morality of the methods involved, but that's not my primary objection to Section 31. The Federation itself has used morally questionable methods to achieve its objectives, too; what I object to is the lack of accountability to any higher authority.
I enjoyed all of the S31 books. I think they approached S31 in different ways.
My two favorites were Cloak and Abyss. I guess you could consider The Good That Men Do a S31 book as well. I liked it better than Martin and Mangels's Rogue and the Voyager book, "Shadow" (I believe).
So, my S31 books in order:
1. Cloak
2. Abyss
3. The Good that Men Do
4. Rogue
5. Shadow
My two favorites were Cloak and Abyss. I guess you could consider The Good That Men Do a S31 book as well. I liked it better than Martin and Mangels's Rogue and the Voyager book, "Shadow" (I believe).
So, my S31 books in order:
1. Cloak
2. Abyss
3. The Good that Men Do
4. Rogue
5. Shadow
But the one time in canon that S31's immoral actions came to light was the discovery that the genocidal infection of the Great Link with the changeling virus. This was, in fact, the single most important factor in convincing the Dominion to surrender, and something the Great and Noble United Federation of Planets could never have officially condoned.
And yet, once revealed, and the Fed Council and Starfleet Command did become accountable, they decided to do nothing, tacitly approving 31's actions.
Lovely, lovely shades of gray...
^ Uh, S31 did not end the war; their genocidal virus pushed the Founders into a policy of mutual annihilation (since they were going to die anyway) that would have resulted in massive slaughter if it hadn't been for Odo's act of mercy. The Federation had the Dominion beat logistically by the end of the series, which had nothing to do with the virus but with being able to deny them reinforcements from the Gamma Quadrant and the Romulans' entry into the war (there's your shades of grey); all 31 did was ensure that the Dominion would fight to the bitter end because they were dead one way or another. It was a vile plot perpetrated by vile people which cost more lives than it saved, and could have unleashed even greater tragedy.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Uh, no, wrong. The "annihilation" we saw on screen was aimed at the Dominion's allies, the Cardassians, not because of a virus, but because Damar pissed them off. There's nothing that indicates the emergence of the virus and the discovery that S31 was responsible had any effect on the Dominion's tactics; otherwise, one would have expected there would be a couple hundred occupied worlds around the AQ that would have been turned to radioactive slag weeks before the series finale.
You're talking about a state that breeds unquestioning clones for soldiers, who believe they are dead, and go into battle to reclaim their lives. The first we saw of the Jem'Hadar, they kamikazied the Odyssey, without a thought to their individual lives. The virus didn't make that happen, and I highly doubt that a healthy Female Changeling would have inevitably sued for peace because the cost of imposing order on the AQ at some point got too high.
But their intentions were good.
I'm not talking about the revenge strikes on Cardassia, which were motivated by sheer pettiness; I'm talking about the fact that even after they were clearly defeated, the Founder intended to fight until every last soldier was dead. The Dominion forces were ready to meet the Federation and its allies around Cardassia Prime, where the plan was to make the inevitable AQ victory as costly as possible, to slaughter as many as they could before the end. In other words, the virus prevented a surrender, because the Founders value only their own lives and if they couldn't have that, they were ready to take everybody else down with them. (Note that the Founder was cured, then surrendered; and not the other way around, surrendering as a condition for being cured).
That's the Jem'Hadar, whom the Founders consider expendable (as they do pretty much everybody else). But the Founders themselves place their own survival as a very high priority; we've seen again and again how much of their way of life is axed around self-preservation. They're hardly suicidal; frankly, they're a rather cowardly lot when you get right down to it. The Founders would have sued for peace when it became clear that they were going to lose, to save their own fluid hides--but since those hides were already write-offs, they kept on fighting.
But their intentions were good.
Uh... genocide? Good intentions? Need I even point out how profoundly unethical that is?
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
She surrendered because once she knew a cure was possible, ending the war was the only way Odo would be allowed to take the cure back to the Great Link. Did you miss that?
Of course, Odo agreeing to go back to the Link at all got the Female Changeling a big part of what she wanted as well.
No, that's what I've been saying: the Founder only surrendered once she saw that they weren't all going to die out. As long as they were infected, there was no reason to surrender, because it wouldn't save them.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
^^ The easiest way of looking at it is to say that without the virus and the great link being infected, then the female changeling would have had no motivation to surrender her forces whatsoever. Quite likely they'd have fought to the last.
You can argue that it was the cure that ultimately convinced the Dominion to surrender, but without the virus in the first place there wouldn't have been any need for a cure, and the virus aside, the alliance would not have defeated the Dominion without incurring many more losses first.
Besides, it was never confirmed one way or the other than Section31 didn't have a cure of their own with which to drive the same bargain with the Dominion that Odo eventually did. The assumption was that Sloan was just trying to keep Bashir/O'Brien interested for long enough so that they'd die with him, but that's conjecture.
Section 31 purport to be patriots, taking their mandate from section 31 of the Earth Starfleet charter. Why not just revoke it? Odo sizes up the situation quite aptly when he said;
You can argue that it was the cure that ultimately convinced the Dominion to surrender, but without the virus in the first place there wouldn't have been any need for a cure, and the virus aside, the alliance would not have defeated the Dominion without incurring many more losses first.
Besides, it was never confirmed one way or the other than Section31 didn't have a cure of their own with which to drive the same bargain with the Dominion that Odo eventually did. The assumption was that Sloan was just trying to keep Bashir/O'Brien interested for long enough so that they'd die with him, but that's conjecture.
Section 31 purport to be patriots, taking their mandate from section 31 of the Earth Starfleet charter. Why not just revoke it? Odo sizes up the situation quite aptly when he said;
Yes, she had motivation: saving herself. The Founders prize their own lives above pretty much everything else, as I've said, and once it become obvious that the Federation had the Dominion beat, there would have been no reason (for her) to keep fighting and risk her life in a bloody planetary invasion of Cardassia Prime. But since her life was forfeit anyway, as were that of her fellow Founders, due to the virus, she was determined to see that the inevitable victory would be as costly as possible, refusing to let the defenders above Cardassia Prime stand down. It's the virus that drove them to fight to the last--such self-sacrifice is not in the Founders' psychology, particularly not when no other Founders stand to benefit.
Firstly, the Federation had the Dominion beat logistically by the end of the series; it was just a question of how costly that victory would prove. So the virus had no effect on the Dominion's defeat. Secondly, even if you thought that was the case, surely you can't place responsibility for Odo's actions at S31's doorstep? That's like congratulating George III on founding the United States, or praising Mohamed Atta for bringing democracy to Afghanistan. That a more righteous person stepped in to to heal the damage created by the madmen in S31 does not make those madmen responsible for the benefit of that act of mercy. Their goal, remember, was not peace with the Dominion, but the elimination of the Dominion through mass-murder. That peace was achieved in spite of their crimes cannot then be attributed to them. It was not their intent, and if it hadn't been for Odo, many more people (on both sides) would have died as a result of it.
How? Section 31 is rogue. Even the Federation President, arguably the highest executive power in the state, does not have any control (or sometimes even knowledge) over them. Section 31 cannot be dismissed; it has to be dismantled, like any other paramilitary terrorist organization.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
1) The United Earth Starfleet Charter is no longer in force, because the United Earth Starfleet no longer exists so far as we know. It has already been revoked.
2)
These are the same people who assassinated the President of the United Federation of Planets (A Tim to Heal). These are not people whose actions are legally-mandated or sanctioned, or who even give a shit about the rule of law. These are people who will commit acts of genocide -- in spite of the fact that such acts only made the war all the more costly for the Federation -- out of their own self-righteousness (DS9 Finale arc). These are people who will arrange for a Dominion massacre of thousands of innocent civilians on New Beijing just to convince one genetically-engineered guy to join their group (Section 31: Abyss). These are people who traded away an entire sector of space to the Romulans in return for an obviously-outdated list of Tal Shiar agents in Federation space, and thereby almost handed over control of one of the most powerful sources of energy in the galaxy to the enemy (Section 31: Rogue).
And most damning of all, these are people who do all of this, and who refuse to be held accountable to anyone.
It's not even the fact of their actions, as abhorrent as they are. It's the fact that they refuse to be held accountable for them. Sisko did some terrible things during "In the Pale Moonlight," but, hey, remember, he at least held himself accountable and made sure that he had Starfleet Command's approval. Kirk may have bent and broken the rules all the time -- stealing the Enterprise and getting it blown up, for instance. But he then stood trial for his actions.
Section 31 does no such thing. Their very existence is illegal because they refuse to operate within the structure of a democratic government. They don't take orders from the Federation President or Council; they don't operate with authorization. They do whatever they like, whenever they like, however they like, and then they kill anyone who tries to stop them.
They are not a shade of grey. They're a shade of pure black, and one whose utility is questionable at the least, and more than likely nonexistent.
BTW, as far as Odo's quote goes -- keep in mind, it's entirely possible that the Federation Council has no idea that Section 31 made it. Sure, Bashir and Sisko probably filed it in their reports -- and just as likely, someone at Command classified those reports or falsified new ones to indicate that the virus was a naturally-occuring phenomenon. There's no reason at all to presume that Council knew it was artificial, or that it was created by nominal Federates.
Pretty sure that towards the end of WYLB that Odo makes it clear that part of his agreement with the female changeling over the terms of the surrender was that he'd go back and cure the rest of the founders. The intimation is that without such an agreement then they would not have surrendered. Odo curing her was giving her the proof that he could actually do it.
Again, it was intimated in WYLB that whilst the Dominion were holed up in Cardassian space, that they could hold out pretty much indefinitely. A sentiment which came close to being borne out, without the tactical blunder on the founder's part of underestimating the importance of the Cardassian forces fighting for them, it's questionable as to whether or not the Alliance attack against Cardassia Prime would have been successful. I think it was pretty clear that they were taking a beating until the Cardassian ships turned. Hence the "Thank God for the Cardassians" sentiment.
Re Section 31's role; I'd say they quite efficiently constructed the conditions for eventual victory. Perhaps not exactly as they originally planned, but ultimately, the virus was the key. It's again quite clear that the virus was having a physically adverse affect on the female changeling. Had she been of clearer mind, would she have made such a serious tactical blunder as prompting the Cardassian ships to turn mid fire-fight?
Had the Dominion managed to cure the disease themselves, what would their reaction have been? Could they have hated solids more? Could they have tried any harder to conquer the AQ? Doubtful. The view that I'm sure Section 31 would have taken would be that the gambit was a calculated risk from a success factor point of view, but realistically, there wasn't a down side. Ultimately, even if the AQ Dominion forces managed to engineer a cure, they still had to get it back through the wormhole, which, without a surrender, the Alliance was under no obligation to allow.
I was taking a rather simplistic view of this, in suggesting that they simply revoke section 31 of the Earth Starfleet charter. Section 31 take their mandate from the relevant section from article 14, which permits the 'bending' of certain rules of conduct under certain circumstances. Revoke the section, and if they're truly patriots then arguably they have no mandate to continue. As I said, a simplistic view, I'm sure their warped sense of morals would lead them to alternative justifications anyway.
