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Are the powers that be / Moffat superstitious?

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Admiral
Admiral
Up until The Name of the Doctor Smith was #11.

Then suddenly he's #12. OK, fine, can live with that. That means Capaldi would be the 13th Doctor.

But before we have time to get used to that idea we find out at Christmas that Tennant's aborted regeneration in The Stolen Earth actually used up a life, so now Smith is #13.

But before anyone can panic about having a 13th Doctor poof! He's gone and Capaldi is now Doctor 2.01.

Is there a reason Moffat accelerated this? Did they want to avoid a 13th Doctor altogether?

Personally I think it's a bit sad that we never got to see an incarnation brooding over the fact he'll never regenerate again.

Sorry if this has been mentioned before; been on a farm since boxing day without internet access. :)
 
Well, some people have said that Moffat invented the Hurt Doctor just so he could be the one to solve the regeneration limit problem. Others agree with you that it would've been cool to have Capaldi and Series 8 be all about him facing his own demise. But really, the show has done that already. Ten brooded about it in his specials. Series 6 was all about the death of the Doctor and the Silence, Series 7 gave us Trenzalore, ergo more death discussion.....

So on the whole I'm quite happy that Capaldi's era is a new beginning. As long as he stays more than one series and Clara doesn't leave abruptly in the middle of the series' run of episodes, I'll be happy indeed.
 
Well in retrospect it does explain Matt Smith's fear over dying in "Impossible Astronaut" and "Name of the Doctor"... ;)
 
However, Matt Smith's storyline has always been about permanent death of the Doctor, not just his incarnation.
 
It's not about superstition. Moffat has explained his reasoning for creating the War Doctor. He didn't think it fit established continuity for it to be Eccleston's Doctor that ended the Time War, since that Doctor seemed to be newly regenerated in its wake. And he didn't think it would fit the character of McGann's Doctor to be the one that did it. So that left a new incarnation.

And while Russell T. Davies seemed to treat the "Journey's End" regeneration as a "partial" one, Moffat apparently disagreed and felt it had to count as a full one. And his reasoning makes sense in context of the original series. In "Mawdryn Undead," it was explained that a Time Lord had only 12 "packets" of regeneration energy in the body, and that would mean that the "Journey's End" regeneration used up one of the Doctor's lives even though he didn't change form.

So it had nothing to do with any stupid superstitions over arbitrary numerals. It was Moffat's reaction to what his predecessor had established, based on story, character, and continuity considerations.

After all, Capaldi is still officially the Twelfth Doctor, since in real-world terms he's the twelfth actor to play the starring role in the franchise. There is absolutely no plan to renumber the Doctors; again, Moffat has said as much in interviews. So the one after Capaldi will be the Thirteenth Doctor. The number will not be skipped.
 
Right. 10 used up a whole regeneration. He syphoned of the last bit of energy that would have changed his appearance into the hand before that happened.
Effectively he stopped at the reset stage Matt Smith was on before he snapped into Capaldi.
 
Effectively he stopped at the reset stage Matt Smith was on before he snapped into Capaldi.

No, the "reset" is not a normal thing, but was part of the infusion of the new regeneration cycle the Time Lords provided. So it wouldn't have happened in previous cases. It wasn't just a reset of a single regeneration, but of the entire cycle, his entire biology.

My interpretation of what happened in "Journey's End" was that Ten "didn't want to go" so badly that he resisted changing and, for once, was able to direct his regeneration and choose his form, the way Romana did when she regenerated in "Destiny of the Daleks" -- and the way the Eighth Doctor was somewhat able to do in "The Night of the Doctor" with help from the Sisterhood's potions. And he chose to stay the same as he was.
 
Effectively he stopped at the reset stage Matt Smith was on before he snapped into Capaldi.

No, the "reset" is not a normal thing, but was part of the infusion of the new regeneration cycle the Time Lords provided. So it wouldn't have happened in previous cases. It wasn't just a reset of a single regeneration, but of the entire cycle, his entire biology.

My interpretation of what happened in "Journey's End" was that Ten "didn't want to go" so badly that he resisted changing and, for once, was able to direct his regeneration and choose his form, the way Romana did when she regenerated in "Destiny of the Daleks" -- and the way the Eighth Doctor was somewhat able to do in "The Night of the Doctor" with help from the Sisterhood's potions. And he chose to stay the same as he was.

It also reminded me of how the Master "chose" not to regenerate in Last of the Time Lords.
 
Moffat has explained his reasoning for creating the War Doctor. He didn't think it fit established continuity for it to be Eccleston's Doctor that ended the Time War, since that Doctor seemed to be newly regenerated in its wake. And he didn't think it would fit the character of McGann's Doctor to be the one that did it. So that left a new incarnation.

I still argue about this, not for the sake of Eccleston did seem to be newly regenerated, but for the fact that Eccleston and Tennant both accepted they caused the end of the Time War but under Moffat's tenure it's passed on to an unknown incarnation. I just feel it undermines what came before.
 
I still argue about this, not for the sake of Eccleston did seem to be newly regenerated, but for the fact that Eccleston and Tennant both accepted they caused the end of the Time War but under Moffat's tenure it's passed on to an unknown incarnation. I just feel it undermines what came before.

Why? Every incarnation is still the Doctor. The actors are different people, but the character is the same continuous individual. The event was still part of the Doctor's personal past regardless of whether it was done by the Eighth Doctor (as just about everyone assumed for the past eight years) or a hitherto-unknown incarnation between McGann and Eccleston.

It's no different from Tennant's Doctor having personal baggage with Sarah Jane Smith even though she only knew his third and fourth selves. He's still the same man regardless of who plays him.
 
It's not about superstition. Moffat has explained his reasoning for creating the War Doctor. He didn't think it fit established continuity for it to be Eccleston's Doctor that ended the Time War, since that Doctor seemed to be newly regenerated in its wake. And he didn't think it would fit the character of McGann's Doctor to be the one that did it. So that left a new incarnation.

Though we know that Moffat met with Eccleston with a view to outlining his vision for the 50th anniversary. Obviously, nobody except Moffat knows what DOTD would've been like had Chris agreed to take part in it. But certainly plenty of people have speculated that the War Doctor was originally intended to be the Ninth Doctor. There is a train of thought that he only came up with this 'secret Doctor' after Eccleston declined to appear.

I suppose had Eccleston been in it, the episode could've been Nine, Ten, Eleven and WD but the other version seems equally plausible to me.

(I should add that I'm otherwise in full agreement with your post)
 
Though we know that Moffat met with Eccleston with a view to outlining his vision for the 50th anniversary. Obviously, nobody except Moffat knows what DOTD would've been like had Chris agreed to take part in it. But certainly plenty of people have speculated that the War Doctor was originally intended to be the Ninth Doctor. There is a train of thought that he only came up with this 'secret Doctor' after Eccleston declined to appear.

That's not speculation anymore. As I said, Moffat has explained his thinking in an interview, and he's confirmed that if Eccleston had agreed to appear, he would have filled the War Doctor's role -- however, Moffat feels that wouldn't have worked as well.

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/what-if-eccleston-had-returned-for-50th-56889.htm
Asked if it would have been Eccleston ending the Time War instead: “Yes, but do you know, I was always nervous of that one, because it doesn’t fit with [2005's] Rose at all.

“[Eccleston] is a brand new Doctor in Rose, he’s absolutely, definitely new. It couldn’t have been is who pushed the button in the Time War, cos that’s a new man, very explicitly, in that episode. I also had trouble, I have to be honest, imagining it being Paul McGann’s Doctor.

“So all of this led me to the idea that if you’re going to sell to the Not-We audience a Doctor who essentially they haven’t seen before, then you have a freer hand than saying it has to be one of the ones you’ve already had....”
 
^Fair enough. But from reading your original post, one would have had the impression that he deliberately opted not to include CE and created a new incarnation instead. Probably not what you intended but it read a little ambiguously.

I agree that the WD works very well in the context of the story Moffat opted to tell but it was effectively foisted on him by Eccleston's refusal to appear; necessity as the mother of invention etc. But had Eccleston opted to appear, the 'newly regenerated' Doctor thing would apparently have been overlooked and Nine would've been the one to use The Moment.
 
^Fair enough. But from reading your original post, one would have had the impression that he deliberately opted not to include CE and created a new incarnation instead. Probably not what you intended but it read a little ambiguously.

It's on record that Eccleston declined to appear. I thought that was well enough known that it didn't need to be stated again.


I agree that the WD works very well in the context of the story Moffat opted to tell but it was effectively foisted on him by Eccleston's refusal to appear; necessity as the mother of invention etc. But had Eccleston opted to appear, the 'newly regenerated' Doctor thing would apparently have been overlooked and Nine would've been the one to use The Moment.

Which is why I'm glad he didn't agree to appear. The War Doctor works much better. Although it would've been nice if Eccleston had changed his mind late in the game and agreed to do a brief cameo -- maybe he would've been the spokesman for the past Doctors in the climax rather than the First Doctor doing it, and of course he would've done the regeneration scene. (Then we would've had a proper first line for the Ninth Doctor, which I could've added to my "Doctors' first and last lines" blog post, which for the past couple of weeks has been the most popular post on my blog by an insanely huge margin.)


Having Chris doing it would have given the Bad Wolf appearance of the Moment much much more oomph, though.

I think it worked better this way. It suggests that the reason the Ninth Doctor was so drawn to Rose was because, despite having lost his conscious memory of the last day of the war, he subconsciously recognized her face as that of the Moment, which had saved him from making the worst mistake of his lives.


Well, some people have said that Moffat invented the Hurt Doctor just so he could be the one to solve the regeneration limit problem.

I find it hard to shake that impression.

Whereas I find it a very unlikely interpretation. It's not as if the regeneration limit was ever a real problem; it was always a given that some way would be found to extend the Doctor's life beyond the thirteenth incarnation so long as the show was still going strong. So it's not like there's any great prestige in it. And Moffat's "solution" was incredibly cursory -- Clara makes a brief speech to a crack in a wall, the Doctor inhales some pixie dust, and Bob's your uncle. I think if "solving the problem" had been so important to him that it shaped his whole storytelling agenda, he wouldn't have given us such a slapdash "solution." It seemed less like he had some personal ego stake in achieving this goal and more like he just wanted to get it out of the way and move on with more important stuff.

I think that he did what a series writer does, which is to consider what's been established in the past, see its possibilities, and build on them. We were already on the eleventh Doctor, a twelfth was demanded by the realities of the anniversary, and Moffat didn't think he could just ignore the "fakeout" regeneration that RTD had given Tennant.

Remember, Moffat did say that there would've been no War Doctor if Eccleston had agreed to appear. So then there would've still been one regeneration left. So it can't be true that Moffat shaped everything to lead to this outcome. If Eccleston had made a different decision about "Day of...," Moffat would've had to tell "Time of..." differently.
 
I still argue about this, not for the sake of Eccleston did seem to be newly regenerated, but for the fact that Eccleston and Tennant both accepted they caused the end of the Time War but under Moffat's tenure it's passed on to an unknown incarnation. I just feel it undermines what came before.

Why? Every incarnation is still the Doctor. The actors are different people, but the character is the same continuous individual. The event was still part of the Doctor's personal past regardless of whether it was done by the Eighth Doctor (as just about everyone assumed for the past eight years) or a hitherto-unknown incarnation between McGann and Eccleston.

It's no different from Tennant's Doctor having personal baggage with Sarah Jane Smith even though she only knew his third and fourth selves. He's still the same man regardless of who plays him.

No I'm talking about how the Doctors behaved post-Time War. Eccleston was damn near "proud" that he made it (the Moment) happen - his words from 'Dalek' - and Tennant wasn't far behind.

Smith on the other hand never really battered an eyelid about it (though with good reason, they rightly so shouldn't mention the Time War by then) but when he finally comes to face the Time War in The Name of the Doctor, it's shoved onto a hidden incarnation. All of a sudden it removes Smith's Doctor from the Time War in a way that made Eccleston's shell-shocked war torn incarnation so powerful.
 
Though we know that Moffat met with Eccleston with a view to outlining his vision for the 50th anniversary. Obviously, nobody except Moffat knows what DOTD would've been like had Chris agreed to take part in it. But certainly plenty of people have speculated that the War Doctor was originally intended to be the Ninth Doctor. There is a train of thought that he only came up with this 'secret Doctor' after Eccleston declined to appear.

That's not speculation anymore. As I said, Moffat has explained his thinking in an interview, and he's confirmed that if Eccleston had agreed to appear, he would have filled the War Doctor's role -- however, Moffat feels that wouldn't have worked as well.

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/what-if-eccleston-had-returned-for-50th-56889.htm
Asked if it would have been Eccleston ending the Time War instead: “Yes, but do you know, I was always nervous of that one, because it doesn’t fit with [2005's] Rose at all.

“[Eccleston] is a brand new Doctor in Rose, he’s absolutely, definitely new. It couldn’t have been is who pushed the button in the Time War, cos that’s a new man, very explicitly, in that episode. I also had trouble, I have to be honest, imagining it being Paul McGann’s Doctor.

“So all of this led me to the idea that if you’re going to sell to the Not-We audience a Doctor who essentially they haven’t seen before, then you have a freer hand than saying it has to be one of the ones you’ve already had....”

But when did he visit the Titanic in Southampton? Or Krakatoa? Or Dallas in 1963? Do we just assume they are off-screen adventures he took with Rose during his only season?

Personally I think the mirror scene should've been dropped. He'd been running around chasing the Nestene for a bit after the war; you'd think he'd seen a mirror prior to that day.
 
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