Are Star Trek Alien Races Too Stereotypical?

[The Overlord]

I thought this was an interesting video, it was review of the episode "The Magnificent Ferengi", that also talks about how stereotypical some of the alien races are in Star Trek. Is this a fair criticism?

http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d534.asp

 

[R. Star]

SFDebris does have a point. He usually does, though often enough you have to take it with a somewhat large grain of salt at times.

The Klingons are a warrior culture to the exclusion of all else. Even their lawyers do "battle" in the court room and their nanny's wear armor and carry daggers. Who works at the power plant, the hospitals, etc. The only real references to these are a fat singing cook in the Klingon restaurant on DS9 and Kor's reference of disdain that the children of his soldiers are opening shops among the people he conquered.

The Ferengi want money and naked women. A lot of guys do, but I'd say there's more to us than that. Quark really fleshed out Ferengi culture a lot, but there's a lot to be desired and there seem to be few exceptions to the capitalistic rule.

The Romulans are really just cheap knockoffs of the Romans, down to the name.They engage in byzantine activities to the core, have a strong military tradition and are generally oppressive.

The Cardassians started off similarly, just another disgruntled bad guy that wants to conquer all. But they eventually did get fleshed out a lot more than most Trek races do. They became militaristic and started wars to gain resources because their people were sick and starving. There was an active democratic resistance movement that even succeeded in gaining power for awhile, and there were clear cultural distinctions of non-military characters, such as women being "ideally" suited for the sciences. There was a lot of stress on the family structure too. While this doesn't justify their actions a lot of the time, it does make you more sympathetic to them as to how they ended up that way instead of just a random villain of the week that's evil and don't ask why.

Even the Federation isn't immune to this. Everyone works selfless lives and the state provides everything. The whole concept of "why" everyone does this and how this moneyless economy works was never explained reasonably. Just that it does and humanity is better and can condescendingly look down upon their ancestors for it.

 

[137th Gebirg]

This was always my greatest gripe with Trek. The overly-simplistic notion that Klingons were "X", Romulans were "Y", Cardassians were "Z" and hardly ever any variation on the theme was very short-sighted, IMHO. This, particularly coming from a show that invented the concept of IDIC, seemed tangentially hypocritical.

True, Klingons were somewhat fleshed out because they were given more air time than probably any other race outside Starfleet, and we saw some interesting variations on Cardassians in DS9, but always seemed to be extremely rare exceptions from the grander rule. Romulans in the 24th century, to me, were exceptionally lame and seemed to deviate from their more honor-bound predecessors in TOS. It almost seemed like the Klingons and Romulans switched roles between the two shows and in the 22nd Century, with Enterprise, they were all asshats - but that's another subject that's a bit off-topic.

 

[The Overlord]

Related to this topic, I heard that conservative writer Jonah Goldberg once said the Ferengi were Jewish stereotypes, is that a fair or unfair statement?

 

[T'Girl]

I believe that Gene Roddenberry intended them to be American stereotypes.

 

[Admiral_Sisko]

This was always my greatest gripe with Trek. The overly-simplistic notion that Klingons were "X", Romulans were "Y", Cardassians were "Z" and hardly ever any variation on the theme was very short-sighted, IMHO. This, particularly coming from a show that invented the concept of IDIC, seemed tangentially hypocritical.

True, Klingons were somewhat fleshed out because they were given more air time than probably any other race outside Starfleet, and we saw some interesting variations on Cardassians in DS9, but always seemed to be extremely rare exceptions from the grander rule. Romulans in the 24th century, to me, were exceptionally lame and seemed to deviate from their more honor-bound predecessors in TOS. It almost seemed like the Klingons and Romulans switched roles between the two shows and in the 22nd Century, with Enterprise, they were all asshats - but that's another subject that's a bit off-topic.

You're not alone in thinking this, as a number of us feel the same way. The Romulans of the 23rd century seemed much more interesting than their 24th century counterparts, with the exception of characters such as the Romulan Commander in "The Chase," N'vek, Jarok, Bochra, Cretak, and Donatra .

 

[Drago-Kazov]

I believe that Gene Roddenberry intended them to be American stereotypes.

"They are like yankee traders"

They just happen to suck at it.

 

[MacLeod]

Well it's not always easy to flesh out Alien races, you only have x minutes in whcih to tell a story. Sure DSN fleshed out some of the Alien races but it could do that due to it's more static location. Even TNG managed it a bit with the Klingons.

As for the changing nature of some of these races, why isn't that possible? People have different views on how things should get done, all it takes is for one side to become more dominat than the othres.

The Federation might view the Romulans as some what duplicitious, whilst the majority Klingon viewpoint (prior to the Dominion War) was that they were without honour (I'm guessing the whole sneak attacks on places like Narendra III helped create that view) Similiary after Narendra III the Federation was seen as honourable given the sacrifice of the Enterprise-C.

Small events can have big repercussions

 

[Lt. LaForge]

I don't think it was that bad. The thing is, we almost always saw one part of the various societies introduced to us...the military branch. Remember the Klingon and Ferengi scientists in "Suspicions?" Remember the regular Romulans who despised the ways of their military in "Unification?" There are other examples. Think of it like this, soldiers overseas are very different from the people they become (normalcy) when they come back home.

 

[Drago-Kazov]

KRAD really fleshed out the Klingons in his tetralogy.

 

[sonak]

the simple answer is "yes," Star Trek tends to portray alien civilizations as having one monolithic culture with almost all the members of it adhering to that culture.

However, there's a reason for that: it's a TV show that was telling metaphorical stories, so it makes sense for that reason(in a Cold War metaphor, you needed the Klingons as stand-ins for the Russians, etc.)

Also, it's just easier storytelling that way.

 

[R. Star]

The Klingons as a parallel to the Soviets was just silly. By definition the Klingons were a blend of an aristocracy coupled with a merit based society. Sure a noble like Kor has greater opportunities, but the lowly Klingon janitor that Martok started out as can rise to greatness. Sure they were authoritarian but they were also reactionary to the core.

If anything the Federation had far more in common with the Soviet Union being the state provides everything the people need, the moneyless economy and everyone leading selfless lives dedicated to the furtherment of the state.

But hey, most people don't think of such things... so any parallels stop at "the bad guy."

 

[T'Girl]

the Federation had far more in common with the Soviet Union being the state provides everything the people need

When did we see the Federation "state' provide everything? Or much of anything?

The sameness of the various alien cultures is kind of the same as the one climate worlds (desert world, ice world), most species have one race, one government, one language. There are only a few exceptions, Klingons come in three skin colors, Bolians in two, Andorians in two (plus albino). Did we ever see a non-white Bajorian?

 

[R. Star]

The fact that Starfleet itself controls ALL the power relays on Earth as stated in Paradise Lost indicates that the state provides all basic utilities. Every home has a working replicator. Admiral Paris states that civilians have access to holosuites at will across the Federation in Author, Author. No one pays for this since it's a moneyless economy, right? So it has to come from the state.

Oh and Korena, Jake's future wife/ex in the Vistor was a black Bajoran.

 

[sonak]

The Klingons as a parallel to the Soviets was just silly. By definition the Klingons were a blend of an aristocracy coupled with a merit based society. Sure a noble like Kor has greater opportunities, but the lowly Klingon janitor that Martok started out as can rise to greatness. Sure they were authoritarian but they were also reactionary to the core.

If anything the Federation had far more in common with the Soviet Union being the state provides everything the people need, the moneyless economy and everyone leading selfless lives dedicated to the furtherment of the state.

But hey, most people don't think of such things... so any parallels stop at "the bad guy."

Why is it not a parallel because the Klingons have some measure of a meritocracy? Whatever you feel about the ethics of the Soviet system, a Communist state is more of a meritocracy than a liberal capitalist one.(for the simple reason that the circumstances of your birth, whether you're born to a rich family or poor one don't matter in Communism. Each citizen has access to relatively equal resources. Except for the party hierarchy of course. )


So I'm not sure what you're saying, here. That the meritocratic nature of Klingon society makes it more like the US?

 

[Drago-Kazov]

T'Girl posted:

Did we ever see a non-white Bajorian?

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Jaza_Najem

 

[LobsterAfternoon]

The fact that Starfleet itself controls ALL the power relays on Earth as stated in Paradise Lost indicates that the state provides all basic utilities. Every home has a working replicator. Admiral Paris states that civilians have access to holosuites at will across the Federation in Author, Author. No one pays for this since it's a moneyless economy, right? So it has to come from the state.

Oh and Korena, Jake's future wife/ex in the Vistor was a black Bajoran.

I don't remember the exact exchange with Paris/holodecks, so if I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me. But having access to them doesn't mean they are automatically state run. Chateau Picard is a privately run business that Federation citizens evidently enjoyed, no reason why holodecks couldn't be the same idea. We know the 24th century is moneyless, but that doesn't mean it isn't using some sort of credit system. Energy rations per citizen or something? You can use your energy rations to go eat at Sisko's restaurant or you can use 'em to travel to Risa. People that are interested in having more energy credits set up restaurants or cargo services and such.

 

[137th Gebirg]

IIRC "credits" were referenced several times on-screen as far back as TOS. "Trouble w/ Tribbles" is a perfect example. Then there's also the gold-pressed latinum. Currency has always existed in the Trek universe in one form or another. It's just not the driving force behind people's motivations (at least, not as much as today) and, ergo, not a very useful plot device, generally speaking.

 

[T'Girl]

a Communist state is more of a meritocracy than a liberal capitalist one

In theory perhaps, in the pages of a text book. In reality, a communist state is just another dictatorship, another form of tyranny.

The fact that Starfleet itself controls ALL the power relays on Earth as stated in Paradise Lost indicates that the state provides all basic utilities.

My electrical power comes from a public utility company, but the power isn't "provided" to me, Seattle City Light damn well want to be paid.

The power relays were hacked through the Division of Planetary Operations, not Starfleet. Basically, the saboteurs got into the system and told the various relays to open themselves. Power could be generated, but it wasn't going anywhere. It's not made clear who/what organization was generating the power.

There no indication in the episode that Starfleet controlled the relays.

Every home has a working replicator.

Not really. The house Chief O'Brien grew up in didn't, Robert Picard's didn't. From what we saw and heard on the show maybe half the homes possessed replicators.

If you want one, you would order one from the local appliance retailer, and the purchase price would be deduced from your account. Like when Beverly purchased the bolt of cloth.

Admiral Paris states that civilians have access to holosuites at will across the Federation in Author, Author.

A few blocks from my apartment there are movie theaters, not provided by the government, but instead a commercial business.

Reggie's personal holo visits likely come out of his pay. We have seen Starfleet personnel with money.

No one pays for this since it's a moneyless economy, right?

There is only a single overt statement in all of Star Trek that there's no money. Lot of buy and selling in the Federation and on Earth.

So it has to come from the state.

YMMV.

 

[Dream]

I would imagine Starfleet officer are given credits. It wouldn't really be considered money because those credits would be useless in places like Quark's bar.