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Are Rian Johnson and Alex Kurtzman the fathers of modern science fiction?
- Thread starter Infern0
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Kindly stay on topic or exercise your right to not partake in my thread :-)
If we limit modern to the last five years, then yes. I don’t know how else to discuss or debate this. OP should have just replied to the comment on Facebook instead of dragging it here to make yet another two minutes hate thread over some movies some people just didn’t like which personally offended them.
Last 10-20 years seems pretty implied since, aside from that a full generation generally is 15-25 years, that's when most of the current or pretty-recent SF/F series began.
By that I think Joss Whedon, J.K. Rowling, Peter Jackson and Sam Raimi/Avi Arad/Kevin Feige/Jon Favreau are the biggest influences on fantasy and, as sci-fi has been mixing with or heavily influenced by fantasy, probably sci-fi as well.
No I think it's an interesting debate
You yourself consider the last Jedi to be the greatest star wars movie of all time do you not?
So, therefore you must rate Rian Johnson incredibly highly amongst masters of the science fiction. Superior to George Lucas by default, yes?
I don't know your views on where Discovery ranks amongst Trek but I'd wager a guess that you think it's the best Trek? Would I be far off?
So some people hold these views, I think it's interesting to rank these guys and see where they place vs the former generations of film and TV makers
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No.
I like what they are producing, but they aren’t bringing that much originality to the table. Just doing what everyone else is doing rather well.
NuBSG had more influence on the direction of modern sci-fi than the aforementioned examples.
I like what they are producing, but they aren’t bringing that much originality to the table. Just doing what everyone else is doing rather well.
NuBSG had more influence on the direction of modern sci-fi than the aforementioned examples.
Empire Strikes Back is better than any Star Wars film directed by Lucas, so Irwin Kershner is a better director than Lucas. But don’t think you’ll find anyone who thinks Lucas is a great director. Amazing idea man, but he’s unable to properly execute those ideas.
As for Roddenberry, his influence over what made TOS isn’t as great as he claimed it was. Art is a collaborative effort, TOS and Star Wars was the product of a lot of different people working towards a goal. Singling out one central figure to be responsible for a show or movie shows a poor understanding of how either are made.
Wait, so your supposition is because someone may like The Last Jedi and/or Discovery, that makes them think Alex Kurtzman and Rian Johnson are the fathers of modern science fiction? The Princess Bride is my favorite film of all time, do you think that means I think Rob Reiner is a better fantasy director than Peter Jackson? I am baffled at the logic here.
No.
The rest is purely subjective conjecture that has been debated time and again.
Yeah, that doesn't make them the father of modern anything.
The rest is purely subjective conjecture that has been debated time and again.
Is someone who became a father five years ago the father of modern humanity?
Nah. Five years olds are generally nicer and better behaved than modern humanity.
What do we define as modern? I mean a lot of the shows that are popular right now are more fantasy shows than science fiction shows anyway, such as the Superhero Genre. I think the best true Science Fiction show right now is The Expanse, but I don't entirely know who the showrunner is for that one. If we wanted to go back a decade, we could say someone like Ron Moore is the father of modern Sci Fi with Battlestar Galactica helping spawn this era of heavily serialized content. I just think there is too much out there to call one or two individuals the "father" of anything.
They are overrated.
Don't mistake me. They are both talented individuals that created fiction that entire empires (pardon the pun) were built upon. And most certainly, they have done great work. But, their efforts are also built on by others. Some of those others are the people responsible for what many consider the best entries in the series. Yes, the foundation for DS9, TWOK, ESB and Rogue One was built by Roddenberry and Lucas respectfully, but they had little to nothing to do with the final product of each of which, arguably is considered by many to be the best. We just tend to put these individuals on such high pedestals that its almost taboo to criticize them. But, Roddenberry in particular? He was responsible for some terrible adventures of Star Trek. And lest we forget Lucas' terrible prequel dialogue. (Admittedly, the movies themselves have some pretty tremendous themes to them.)
No, I don't think that Johnson and Kurtzman have created the "best" of the franchises. In fact, out of everything in both Trek and Wars, I prefer TOS and the 1977 Star Wars the best, the stuff that was created by the people behind them. But that doesn't mean that I think the work that came from those who came after doesn't have a lot of redeeming qualities to them. So, now I wouldn't consider Roddenberry or Lucas or Kurtzman or Johnson the fathers of their era of sci-fi.
There are some amazing creators out there who have done work in science fiction beyond this stuff that are far more worthy of the name "father of modern science fiction."
Honestly I would argue that David Eick and Ron Moore had a bigger impact on "modern" science fiction than Kurtzman or Rian Johnson, and I say that as a fan of both Discovery and TLJ. While we can debate whether or not an individual enjoyed Battlestar Galactica, you can't deny the impact it had on the science fiction that came after it, at least as far as visuals and narrative structure. Or JJ Abrams, Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof launching the "mystery box" style shows that have been on the air ever since. Or even JMS for the long running narrative arc that many shows attempt to ape to this day. I know a lot of this existed before these guys, but they are some of the guys who popularized it into the form it is currently used in. And I say this as someone for whom neither BSG nor B5 are my favorite shows, I just recognize the impact they've had. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
But, what's the debate? If a couple of filmmakers "fathers of Modern Science fiction"? What does that even mean in this context? And the answer is ... no.
Mostly because in order to be a father or mother of an artistic movement, one has to have influenced others... Have either of those two in their very limited way influenced anyone?
As far as movies go, we're still living in the fucking shadow of Blade Runner's production design.
And a movie and TV show... talk about tunnel vision... that ignores all the work in books and comics and other media.
So. The debate is sorta of ludicrous and perfect for social media all at the same time.
Because he wrote and directed a good to great movie, he's suddenly a master of science fiction? I guess if you say so, because no one else really is.
George is a great idea man and producer, but, the movies he directed are the weakest. But, certainly Star Wars as a whole influenced Science Fiction, so, yeah, he'd still be a master... Just not a very good director.
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