Are producers afraid of writing new canon?

[Farscape One]

Similarities to what I said, I agree. But we still have hologram Janeway as a regular. Plus, the storyline of her searching for the ship. So there is still a Starfleet presence and viewpoint in the show.

I'm talking about having one with NO Starfleet viewpoint or presence.

 

[El Maestro]

if the real question is "Are producers afraid of leaving the TOS or TNG eras?" I don't think they are, but I do think producers want to capitalize on those eras right now, especially to bring in as many subscribers to Paramount+ who are fans of those eras or at least somewhat familiar with them. In that regard, it's more of a business decision than a creative one, and the entertainment industry is as much of a business as any other industry. Add to that, the landscape has changed quite a lot since 1987...

Yes, it's more of a risk to do a new Trek series in an all-new era that's never been visited before, but I do believe it will eventually happen and it's more an issue of when rather than if, IMO. Maybe once the current crop of TOS- and TNG-derived shows have run their course perhaps. But right now, though, Trek definitely is working with those familiar eras, although they are also expanding upon them with different characters and different situations for them to deal with inside of the established continuity.

I think this is the best answer...they are "afraid," but the fear is more of a business decision than a creative one as you say.

I actually feel some sympathy for anyone creating things a long-running franchise...it must be hard to navigate this kind of environment where the two biggest things you need to worry about are often at odds with each other.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Is... is Discovery not set in the 32nd century? About as far from the TOS and TNG eras as you can get.

Yep. Thread premise, demolished.

In answer to the premise: No.

You know what? Never mind.

This one is too silly for me.

 

[Danja]

Similarities to what I said, I agree. But we still have hologram Janeway as a regular. Plus, the storyline of her searching for the ship. So there is still a Starfleet presence and viewpoint in the show.

I'm talking about having one with NO Starfleet viewpoint or presence.

How would anyone know it was Star Trek (unless it had "Star Trek" in the title)?

 

[Jedi Marso]

Here are some of the problems with going another century (or more) beyond the TNG era:

You have to extrapolate a future that looks another century (or more) further advanced than TNG. By the end of the latter, you have Borg transwarp conduits, time travel at will, access to other dimensional realms, holodecks, etc. On Earth, as seen in Picard, transport technology has advanced to the point of doorways that can move you around the planet at will. Another century or two of technological advancement yields a world and a culture that is too alien for audiences to relate to. What happens when everyone has implants that allow them to communicate telepathically? When your body and the ships themselves can change shape and heal themselves from damage? When that portal technology moves you between planets? When anyone can become an immortal android? When starships are so huge they aren't just space cities, but more like nomadic colonies, and can travel anywhere in the galaxy near instantaneously?

When things become too distant from now or too strange, audiences will not find them relatable.

All those things might make for a great TV show or movie, but they don't resonate with people as 'Star Trek.' Star Trek, at its root, has always been Kirk and Co. on the Starship Enterprise, exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life and new civilizations, etc. Everything we've gotten after has been a variation on that theme. It's why the studios keep running back to it, and I think, in terms of Trek, it's what the general audience wants from it.

 

[UssGlenn]

Is... is Discovery not set in the 32nd century? About as far from the TOS and TNG eras as you can get.

Did you not read the original post? Discovery has been very cagey about describing details about the galaxy at large. However there's a good reason for that. You don't want an offhand comment about the Klingons to derail an amazing story idea a year later. they may not have issues with ignoring lines from 30 years ago, but they are more beholden to lines they write.

 

[Danja]

Here are some of the problems with going another century (or more) beyond the TNG era:

You have to extrapolate a future that looks another century (or more) further advanced than TNG. By the end of the latter, you have Borg transwarp conduits, time travel at will, access to other dimensional realms, holodecks, etc. On Earth, as seen in Picard, transport technology has advanced to the point of doorways that can move you around the planet at will. Another century or two of technological advancement yields a world and a culture that is too alien for audiences to relate to. What happens when everyone has implants that allow them to communicate telepathically? When your body and the ships themselves can change shape and heal themselves from damage? When that portal technology moves you between planets? When anyone can become an immortal android? When starships are so huge they aren't just space cities, but more like nomadic colonies, and can travel anywhere in the galaxy near instantaneously?

When things become too distant from now or too strange, audiences will not find them relatable.

Disco has been grappling with that issue ever since it jumped to the 32nd century.

The tech has now become something akin to magic.

 

[Farscape One]

I would argue that the tech in the future with DISCO being almost magical is a good thing. We're talking 800 years past the Berman era, so the tech should look so advanced that it can appear magical by our standards.

Simply put, Arthur C. Clarke's law.

 

[fireproof78]

Disco has been grappling with that issue ever since it jumped to the 32nd century.

The tech has now become something akin to magic.

Which has the unfortunate side effect of feeling artificially limited at times.

 

[Therin of Andor]

... setting a new show 50-100 years past Picard would open up so many new opportunities creatively speaking.

Roddenberry tried to make a decree that TNG would leave familiar aliens (Vulcans, Klingons, Andorians, Tellarites) behind and to explore new parts of the galaxy. He deliberately set TNG "78 years after Kirk and Spock".

However, GR was coerced to add a Klingon to the bridge (Worf wasn't even in the Writers' Bible for Season One), and they added a Vulcan extra in the corridors. And then a cameo appearance for Dr McCoy. After "Encounter at Farpoint", they even abandoned the extended mission and started to move through familiar areas of space. And for every fan that wanted new material, there were others begging to meet familiar aliens and characters. Eventually we got lots more Klingons, Sarek, Spock, Scotty, Andorians... And even Kirk in the first TNG movie.

Hollywood learns the hard way, over and over, that it is very difficult to sell something too unfamiliar. Hence sequels, prequels, remakes and reboots. Marketing Departments, too, complain that something too unfamiliar is usually a very hard sell. Fans complained that TNG was too different at the same time that other fans were complaining that it was too similar to TOS. We saw the same complaints with each movie, and especially with the Kelvinverse, VGR, ENT and DSC. It's a Kobayashi Maru scenario every time.

 

[MikHutch]

Roddenberry tried to make a decree that TNG would leave familiar aliens (Vulcans, Klingons, Andorians, Tellarites) behind and to explore new parts of the galaxy. He deliberately set TNG "78 years after Kirk and Spock".

However, GR was coerced to add a Klingon to the bridge (Worf wasn't even in the Writers' Bible for Season One), and they added a Vulcan extra in the corridors. And then a cameo appearance for Dr McCoy. After "Encounter at Farpoint", they even abandoned the extended mission and started to move through familiar areas of space. And for every fan that wanted new material, there were others begging to meet familiar aliens and characters. Eventually we got lots more Klingons, Sarek, Spock, Scotty, Andorians... And even Kirk in the first TNG movie.

Hollywood learns the hard way, over and over, that it is very difficult to sell something too unfamiliar. Hence sequels, prequels, remakes and reboots. Marketing Departments, too, complain that something too unfamiliar is usually a very hard sell. Fans complained that TNG was too different at the same time that other fans were complaining that it was too similar to TOS. We saw the same complaints with each movie, and especially with the Kelvinverse, VGR, ENT and DSC. It's a Kobayashi Maru scenario every time.

Which is funny because the Berman era alien races ended up being more used and fleshed out than the TOS era ones ever were (aside from Vulcans)

 

[Therin of Andor]

Which is funny because the Berman era alien races ended up being more used and fleshed out than the TOS era ones ever were (aside from Vulcans)

Yes, but the arrival of Cardassians didn't appease the Andorian fans. Luckily, along came ENT and "The Andorian Incident", which was originally pitched as "The Gorn Incident".

 

[MikHutch]

Yes, but the arrival of Cardassians didn't appease the Andorian fans. Luckily, along came ENT and "The Andorian Incident", which was originally pitched as "The Gorn Incident".

There were Andorians fans pre-ENT?

Plus they had Bolians as replacements

 

[Anna Yolei]

Never underestimate Star Trek fans and their desire for the familiar while yet also demanding something new at the same time.

I'm old enough to remember when people on this very website lambasted VOY for playing it too safe and now SNW gets applauded for most of the same reason.

We owe 2000s Voyager fandom a huge apology

Is... is Discovery not set in the 32nd century? About as far from the TOS and TNG eras as you can get.

Definitely, but there's an argument to be made that TPTB could've and should have started somewhere outside of the 22nd century to begin with. Even with the caveat that there was always gonna be a portion of fans who will never been happy with any version of DSC, I do remember a lot of people had concerns that we were headed down another Rick Berman creativity issue when the connection to Spock was revealled. Thankfully that was proven wrong but little things make a strong impact.

That said:

Hollywood learns the hard way, over and over, that it is very difficult to sell something too unfamiliar. Hence sequels

Sadly, you're not wrong, seeing that Disney seems intent on never doing another original live action movie ever again and every movie doing $1 billion despite everyone online claiming to hate them.

It sure is funny how every original idea that does become a hit or gains cult classic status has a story about at least one exec that fought them tooth and nail on the idea, however.

 

[MikHutch]

The problem with VOY is also the inconsistent storylines and underdeveloped characters. SNW does better on both fronts

 

[fireproof78]

There were Andorians fans pre-ENT?

Plus they had Bolians as replacements

That's cold.

We owe 2000s Voyager fandom a huge apology

Nope. Not a chance. Voyager went it promising something completely unsafe and risky. SNW has gone back and said "Nope, we'll be safe and familiar Trek, don't you worry your pretty little heads."

Sadly, you're not wrong, seeing that Disney seems intent on never doing another original live action movie ever again and every movie doing $1 billion despite everyone online claiming to hate them.

Well, many claim that Disney is the devil yet continue to support them.

They despise the NFL for TBIs and injuries to players and yet keep watching.

Or complain about Paramout+ as a terrible platform yet stay subbed.

As long as we keep rewarding this behavior what is the motivation to change.

Humans are irrational is what I am saying. Also a great show on Peacock

 

[MikHutch]

That's cold.

Cold as Andoria!

Try being a Bolian fan. They barely got a recurring character

Nope. Not a chance. Voyager went it promising something completely unsafe and risky. SNW has gone back and said "Nope, we'll be safe and familiar Trek, don't you worry your pretty little heads."

VOY promised and failed to deliver

 

[Tuskin38]

SNW has gone back and said "Nope, we'll be safe and familiar Trek

I don't think a safe and familiar show would have completely reinvented the Gorn.
Chapel would still be an emotional distant nurse, no relationship with Spock.
Spock wouldn't be so emotional.

I don't think we have the same definition of 'safe and familiar'.
To me a 'safe and familiar' SNW would have the characters acting identical to how they did 57 years ago, most of the Klingons would have flat heads and the Gorn and Kirk wouldn't appear at all.

The way they've portrayed the Gorn is very far away from 'safe and familiar'.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There were Andorians fans pre-ENT?

You are soooo asking the wrong guy that question,

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think a safe and familiar show would have completely reinvented the Gorn.
Chapel would still be an emotional distant nurse, no relationship with Spock.
Spock wouldn't be so emotional.

I don't think we have the same definition of 'safe and familiar'.
To me a 'safe and familiar' SNW would have the characters acting identical to how they did 57 years ago. Some of the Klingons would have flat heads and the Gorn and Kirk wouldn't appear at all.

Safe and familiar means returning to the familiar touchstones.

What they do with it of course is up to them. But, yes SNW is very safe because of the format, and not taking as many risks as Discovery and Picard.

Now, how they've gone about their goal is another story. But the basic format is very safe.