Are Most Falls to the Dark Side Unbelievable According to Many?

[Christopher]

As far as pre 2014 books go, the RotS Novelization is about as canon as you can get, As Lucas was so heavily involved in personally editing it. Matthew Stover stated in 2006:

"I received from LFL a Word document of Revenge of the Sith with Mr Lucas' edits, which was distinct from the edits I'd already gotten from Sue Rostoni and Howard Roffman and the rest of the LFL crew, and this document was edited in such a detailed fashion that even individual words had been struck off and his preferred replacements inserted, as well as some passages wholly excised and some dialogue replaced with the dialogue from the screenplay. If that's not line-editing, I don't know what is.

What's in that book is there because Mr. Lucas wanted it to be there. What's not in that book is not there because Mr. Lucas wanted it gone.

Period."

Okay, but Lucas is no longer deciding what counts and what doesn't. The thing canon-preoccupied fans never understand is that canon is not carved in stone -- it's just the way the current creators choose to tell the story. Different creators can ignore things their predecessors considered canonical (like Jeri Taylor's Voyager novels), and the same creators can change their own minds about canon in later years (e.g. Han shooting first).

 

[Prax]

Well I don't think I'd compare Trek with Star Wars in this regard, as Star Wars, from the early 90's to 2014, and now from 2014 onward, has had a unified continuity. In fact, "canon" seems like such a misnomer the ways it's used for these franchises lately.

In both continuities, there existed or exists "canon advisors." Authors were obligated to follow the overall continuity. Stories were chosen mostly by LFL/Lucasbooks, and Authors then contracted to write them. Not always, but mostly. And books are reviewed and edited to fit.

As for Novelizations, they are a novelization of the Film. The Film is set in stone, and a book will always be more expansive than a film, which more is left to interpretation. Lucasfilm now says that everything post-2014 IS set in stone, and equal with the films and TV series.

Something like "Han shot first" isn't really a story element. In the theatrical cut, you can't see anyone shoot. In the official version now, the only way to really see what's happening would be to pause, and go frame by frame.

 

[Christopher]

Well I don't think I'd compare Trek with Star Wars in this regard, as Star Wars, from the early 90's to 2014, and now from 2014 onward, has had a unified continuity.

No, they didn't. That was the pretense, but the reality was more complicated. Material from the books and comics was frequently ignored and contradicted by the prequel movies and The Clone Wars, and the tie-ins scrambled to gloss over or explain away the contradictions, or just went with the new version and pretended it had always been that way. That's got nothing to do with "canon" despite Lucasfilm's misleading use of the word; it made SW tie-ins exactly like most other tie-ins in that their assertions were not binding on new screen material. The only thing that made them different from Trek tie-ins is that the SW books, comics, games, etc. were all expected to pretend to be consistent with each other. (Which led to some rather absurd things, like the EU having something like half a dozen different missions to retrieve the Death Star plans that ended up in Leia's possession, and a clumsy retcon that the plans were actually broken up into different parts.)

In fact, "canon" seems like such a misnomer the ways it's used for these franchises lately.

It's always a misnomer in fan usage, because fandom has some completely mythical and downright farcical notions about what canon is, but I don't want to get into dragged into that bottomless pit yet again.

 

[Prax]

Then it shall be avoided...

So yeah, I think most of the "falls to the dark side" stories that I've come across are as believable as most "fall from grace" stories ...I've come across. I don't get the impression that Vader was ever evil in the way that Palpatine or others. He's pretty tragic. I mostly feel bad for the guy when watching the OT now.

We don't know much about Kylo yet, but I feel like he was given some pretty crappy parenting.

Jacen sought the Dark side as some sort of philosophical quest. He was also manipulated, but much more willingly. Like he knew what he was getting into. He tried really hard to be more Sithy.

 

[VulcanMindBlown]

Similarly, the ROTS video game had an early draft that featured several elements found in Stover's novel that would be cut from the film itself. One of the game designers said he got to see show preliminary footage of the Dooku duel that was closer to the book that ended up on the cutting room floor.

So, Lucas can change his mind about anything then.

There are definitely some things in the Expanded Universe that I thought made SW better, but I don't think that as a whole, the RotS video game did a good job with telling the entire story of RotS.

 

[fireproof78]

There are definitely some things in the Expanded Universe that I thought made SW better, but I don't think that as a whole, the RotS video game did a good job with telling the entire story of RotS.

That's a rather unreasonable expectation, though. A video game, especially one like ROTS, isn't going to explore the full story, primarily because they want people to see the film. They use cuts scenes from the film to highlight certain scenes, locations and technology.

My larger point was that the ROTS video game was showcased elements that were in earlier drafts, or different versions of specific scenes, that were later removed. Stover worked from a similar draft, because Nic Gillard, stunt coordinator, had shot preliminary footage of a longer and more expansive Dooku/Anakin/Obi-Wan fight, which sound closer to what Stover described in his book.

 

[Prax]

The fight in the movie, and in the book, are the exact same fight. Getting inside the characters heads is something only the book can do

 

[fireproof78]

The fight in the movie, and in the book, are the exact same fight. Getting inside the characters heads is something only the book can do

No, it really isn't.

 

[Prax]

How is it not?

 

[fireproof78]

How is it not?

The battle droids come in to the fight while Dooku still has the upper hand; Obi-Wan and Anakin never really have a demonstrable advantage against Dooku, nor do they "sucker him in" as they do in the novel.

There's more but that's the quick examination. The outcome is certainly the same, but fight could hardly be described as a battle between three masters.