Are humans in Trek actually unhappy about their civilization?

[Jayson1]

I got this this theory in that is humans evolved to much to a point where they no longer really feel like human beings anymore. They say all the right things about earth being a utopia and humans being more evolved but that is also because they have no doubt been exposed to decade after decade of propoganda telling them how great they are.

My theory also is built on the idea is one of the reasons why they have embraced space exploration is because on a subconscious level humans want to get away from "utopia" and find people who still have many of the same problems that use to be on earth and thus are still human even if genetically they aren't human. They still look down at them sometimes but that is because of the conditioning they have grown up in.

It also shows up their entertainment when all the music and holodecks adventures seem to always be from or set in more "primitive" times. It's kind of like nostiga on overdrive. They know most evolved humans can't create art like people from the past unless you move away from earth like a Jake Sisko. Quark once described earth as a "rotating ball of boredom" and I bet many humans also believe that as well.

I think the idea of "perfect" humans somehow being more happy human beings is a flawed view. I think humans actually prefer on some level being kind of primitive. It gives you more of a feeling of freedom than what you get if your just about fitting in and doing what people and society expects from you.

Jason

 

[Nyotarules]

The irony is the humans who keep stating what a great place Earth is all live in space. The only 24th century non Starfleet humans living on Earth shown was Picard's family and Sisko's father and they seem happy and normal.
In my head canon Earth in the 24th century is what Earth in our time would be to someone from the Middle Ages. Our time would seem like a paradise to them.

 

[Vger23]

Humans are always unhappy no matter what society they live in. Why would Roddentopia be any different?



Oh...wait...because humans have left the backward, barbaric concepts of "happy" and "unhappy" behind....or some other asinine ascertation.

 

[Lord Garth]

The Earth/UFP Utopia in TNG/DS9/VOY is the Federation Propaganda Machine on overdrive.

I'll take advantage of a retcon here. Everything is perfect in the Federation. There's peace in the galaxy. Then, come the fourth season of TNG, we find out in "The Wounded" that the Federation just ended a border war with the Cardassians the previous year. But it was "minor".

And the Federation is great. Except for the colony Tasha Yar grew up in. And Dorvan V and all the colonies along the Cardassian border. "But Earth is Paradise."

Except in the 23rd Century it was almost destroyed by V'Ger and a probe looking for whales. Plus the Borg, almost a century later.

All of this before the Dominion War. Which brings us to: The Dominion laid claim to an area of space in the Gamma Quadrant, including the wormhole. But no wormhole takes away exploration of The Gamma Quadrant and reduces DS9's strategic importance, reducing Starfleet and the Federation's profile near Cardassian Space. So, Starfleet gives Sisko a battleship -- the Defiant -- and the Dominion labels the Federation and the Klingons as the two most critical powers to wipe out in the Alpha Quadrant specifically because those two powers are the ones that would put up the most of a fight if they were to invade.

So the Federation isn't peaceful so much as it's peaceful through strength. And Earth is at the core of it. A peaceful utopia heavily guarded by a militia where whoever doesn't live there as at the mercy of galactic conflict.

On Earth itself, they become bored and can't be creatively inspired if they're bored, so they look to the past. Following the "If it was 10 years ago, it sucks. If it was 20 years ago, it's retro-cool" rule and expanding on it to a larger scale, all pop-culture developed from the Mid-20th Century on was deemed as "it sucks" and everything before that was "retro cool". Except the 24th Century mindset did "it sucks" one better and said "not only does it suck, we've outgrown it."

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It also shows up their entertainment when all the music and holodecks adventures seem to always be from or set in more "primitive" times. It's kind of like nostiga on overdrive.

Have you seen Hollywood movies lately?

I see no indication that humans aren't happy overall. It's clearly not quite so idyllic as it lets on. But there's nothing in the show to suggest that claims that modern social problems are fixed are incorrect. They've just been replaced with new problems.

 

[2takesfrakes]

STAR TREK's Humanity's dismissing Religion is the Causative Link betwixt that Universe's unhappiness and the world it lives in. These characters get everything they want out of life instantly and so easily that it becomes meaningless to even desire anything. The Enterprise-E, for example, goes so far as to be self-cleaning, as far as crew quarters and the whole bit. Finished off your Dammit Jim! beer and don't want to carry the can around with you, until you reach the nearest recycle bin? No problem! Crush that motherhumper and toss it anywhere you like ... no, go ahead! it's alright ... the ship's got it. Don't worry about it. It's even been suggested that in STAR TREK: The Motion Picture, Starfleet Officers beam their clothes on, instead of dressing themselves like normal people and there's even a suggestion of this in the Enterprise episode "These Are the Voyages," when Riker's playing in the holodeck and his outfits beam on and off and phase into various ensembles. It just gets increasingly ridiculous, this need for Humanity to rely on technology for every menial gesture in life that isn't fun, or enjoyable. It's no wonder that these people don't find their world particularly satisfying ...

 

[MAGolding]

If humans are a good example, people are very emotionally complex and can have widely different personality types.

So from those very basic facts one can deduce that at least some of the people in the Federation are at least a little bit unhappy with Federation civilization and their own local variation of it and some of the people in the Federation are at least a little bit happy with Federation civilization and their own local variation of it.

 

[Greg Cox]

I dimly recall a bit in Roddenberry's novelization of TMP that implied that Starfleet attracted slightly primitive, atavistic types that gravitated toward the challenges of Final Frontier rather than the serene enlightenment of Earth.

Not just a human thing, apparently; both Spock and Saavik seemed more comfortable among humans, with all their emotions and imperfections, than proper Vulcan society. (Saavik, in particular, seemed a bit more emotional than the average Vulcan so she probably fit in better in Starfleet.)

 

[Tenacity]

Didn't Troi tell Data in Desent that there are no positive or negative emotions? So, if everyone on Earth is unhappy it's still utopia.

 

[Jayson1]

Didn't Troi tell Data in Desent that there are no positive or negative emotions? So, if everyone on Earth is unhappy it's still utopia.

A utopia though might not be a good thing. I mean the concept of how Heaven is described seems like a utopia but I think if you put regular people in that kind of culture, people would begin to despise it. I think humans need suffering and obstacles for their lives to have meaning or else any kind of happiness ends up feeling kind of fake and unsatisfying. I'm a big believer in what Kirk said about "I need my pain." Just because people obey the laws doesn't mean they are happy. I disagree with the above mention that a lack of religion is the issue. I think it's the conformity that would be a real killer for people to handle. No room for individuality or being unique because everyone is the same perfect paragon of virture. Even though racism and sexism is gone I am betting they have even less diversity than some places do in the modern world only it's a lack of diversity of personalities instead of things like skin color or gender.

Jason

 

[iliescu]

They seem to work together to understand other existences in the universe or galaxies...

 

[Nyotarules]

In my head canon Earth is not a perfect place just a lot better than it used to be. Example as a woman of brown skin in the West, life is miles better than it used to be 200 years ago, does not mean present day life is perfect.
In the Star Trek universe human prejudices are displaced with prejudice about aliens re McCoy's attitude to Spock and Stiles attitude to Spock. Consider Starfleet is considered even by aliens as 'a homo sapiens only' club. Seems the Federation is too Terrancentric, it is easy to see the world as a Utopia when its rigged in your favour, white male privilege becomes human privilege in the Star Trek universe of the 24th century.

 

[iliescu]

Well that makes sense, though never thought of it.

 

[Butters]

The neo transcendentalists in up the long ladder, and the Baku, are just two group who felt life was better when you had to put your back in to. The galaxy must be full of groups that branch off to escape the crushing conformity of existing in s bland utopia.

Other civilisations are more on the ball, like Klingons, they just live for a good death. No wonder they hate humans, with their silly notions of preserving life at all cost. Ugh.

 

[dswynne1]

I got this this theory in that is humans evolved to much to a point where they no longer really feel like human beings anymore. They say all the right things about earth being a utopia and humans being more evolved but that is also because they have no doubt been exposed to decade after decade of propoganda telling them how great they are.

My theory also is built on the idea is one of the reasons why they have embraced space exploration is because on a subconscious level humans want to get away from "utopia" and find people who still have many of the same problems that use to be on earth and thus are still human even if genetically they aren't human. They still look down at them sometimes but that is because of the conditioning they have grown up in.

It also shows up their entertainment when all the music and holodecks adventures seem to always be from or set in more "primitive" times. It's kind of like nostiga on overdrive. They know most evolved humans can't create art like people from the past unless you move away from earth like a Jake Sisko. Quark once described earth as a "rotating ball of boredom" and I bet many humans also believe that as well.

I think the idea of "perfect" humans somehow being more happy human beings is a flawed view. I think humans actually prefer on some level being kind of primitive. It gives you more of a feeling of freedom than what you get if your just about fitting in and doing what people and society expects from you.

Jason

My theory is that the combination of the Eugenics War and WW3, coupled by the culling of human beings who were damaged by a host of things on the genetic level, resulted in the mass production of human clones that, while not on the level of Augments, had many human flaws (mental and physical) weeded out. The result? A stable humanity that could be ready to evolve into a noble species.

 

[CRM-114]

The Earth/UFP Utopia in TNG/DS9/VOY is the Federation Propaganda Machine on overdrive.

I'll take advantage of a retcon here. Everything is perfect in the Federation. There's peace in the galaxy. Then, come the fourth season of TNG, we find out in "The Wounded" that the Federation just ended a border war with the Cardassians the previous year. But it was "minor".

And the Federation is great. Except for the colony Tasha Yar grew up in. And Dorvan V and all the colonies along the Cardassian border. "But Earth is Paradise."

Except in the 23rd Century it was almost destroyed by V'Ger and a probe looking for whales. Plus the Borg, almost a century later.

All of this before the Dominion War. Which brings us to: The Dominion laid claim to an area of space in the Gamma Quadrant, including the wormhole. But no wormhole takes away exploration of The Gamma Quadrant and reduces DS9's strategic importance, reducing Starfleet and the Federation's profile near Cardassian Space. So, Starfleet gives Sisko a battleship -- the Defiant -- and the Dominion labels the Federation and the Klingons as the two most critical powers to wipe out in the Alpha Quadrant specifically because those two powers are the ones that would put up the most of a fight if they were to invade.

So the Federation isn't peaceful so much as it's peaceful through strength. And Earth is at the core of it. A peaceful utopia heavily guarded by a militia where whoever doesn't live there as at the mercy of galactic conflict.

On Earth itself, they become bored and can't be creatively inspired if they're bored, so they look to the past. Following the "If it was 10 years ago, it sucks. If it was 20 years ago, it's retro-cool" rule and expanding on it to a larger scale, all pop-culture developed from the Mid-20th Century on was deemed as "it sucks" and everything before that was "retro cool". Except the 24th Century mindset did "it sucks" one better and said "not only does it suck, we've outgrown it."

I tend to agree with this, since we're always told Earth is a utopia, and thus so is the Federation by extrapolation, but it's always from the perspective of Starfleet. Starfleet itself is ostensibly an agency of the Federation government, but seems to wield tremendous power over the Federation's affairs and politics. I think one could make a decent argument that Starfleet is the real authority of the Federation.

 

[Tenacity]

it is easy to see the world as a Utopia when its rigged in your favour

Well said.

I think one could make a decent argument that Starfleet is the real authority of the Federation.

Starfleet is the Federation's sensory organs, and it's arms and legs.

It's sword and it's shield.

Without Starfleet (or something just like it) the Federation would be pretty meaningless.

In fact, it probably wouldn't exist.

 

[Nyotarules]

Without Starfleet (or something just like it) the Federation would be pretty meaningless.

The franchise has Jonathan Archer as the impetus for the Federation via The Coaliton of Planets, its interesting that no one bats and eye that an unelected, semi-military man is so openly influential. E.G If the British believed that the unelected German or French military were openly pushing for the creation of the EEC we would never have joined in the 1970's lol

 

[Lord Garth]

Well said.
Starfleet is the Federation's sensory organs, and it's arms and legs.

It's sword and it's shield.

Without Starfleet (or something just like it) the Federation would be pretty meaningless.

In fact, it probably wouldn't exist.

To be honest, I think it's why they try to say Starfleet isn't the military. The Federation is in a state of denial about what it is and don't want to admit it's the military that makes them what they are and that Starfleet (along with Section 31) allows them to exist. With Starfleet, they say it's something else. With Section 31, they put their head in the sand.

If Star Trek ever does go passed Nemesis, I don't think it necessarily has to be more of the Evolved Humanity that Lily rightfully calls "bullshit". I think the Dominion War woke them up out of their bliss, but we barely see anything of the Post-DS9 Alpha Quadrant so it's hard to really say for sure, but it leaves the window open and provides a cover to take Humanity away from where Gene Roddenberry tried to ham-fistedly have it be in TNG.

 

[Vger23]

To be honest, I think it's why they try to say Starfleet isn't the military. The Federation is in a state of denial about what it is and don't want to admit it's the military that makes them what they are and that Starfleet (along with Section 31) allows them to exist. With Starfleet, they say it's something else. With Section 31, they put their head in the sand.

If Star Trek ever does go passed Nemesis, I don't think it necessarily has to be more of the Evolved Humanity that Lily rightfully calls "bullshit". I think the Dominion War woke them up out of their bliss, but we barely see anything of the Post-DS9 Alpha Quadrant so it's hard to really say for sure, but it leaves the window open and provides a cover to take Humanity away from where Gene Roddenberry tried to ham-fistedly have it be in TNG.

It actually WOULD be cool to see a post-Nemesis series explore how the illusion and pretense of "an evolved society" went into the dumpster of unrealistic crapola after the Dominion War and Borg invasions...and how that impacts Starfleet and Federation society.

Probably the only worthwhile idea for a post-Nemesis setting at this point.