"Archons": You make the call.

[iguana_tonante]

No. I'm arguing that there are no Soviet-specific metaphor in that particular episode. Especially based on the evidences you presented.

Star Trek has plenty of political commentary. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[ToddPence]

Landru was also the name of a French serial killer of the early twentieth century, Henri Landru, kind of the Ted Bundy of his time.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Watched it on blu-ray last night. What got me was how out of place the rape and violence was. Almost like a network suit said "put something in to make it more ..."

The "violence and rape" were pretty integral to the episode's theme, hardly an after thought.

Actually, peace and understanding was the integral part. That is why the computer was developed. To make everyone docile in a time of war. Festival was not just procreation. It was also destructive. Throwing rocks. Using clubs. Who cleaned up the mess afterwards?

Maybe that was also part of Landru's plan. Cleaning up the mess would give the people something to DO. What did they normally do all day when strutting around in a Body-induced haze? They were probably bored out of their skulls. Cleanup would give them a goal to achieve.

 

[xortex]

Stalin, anyone, the red hour. Just ask Shostikovitch how bad it was. The reference was to a false God. Who says 'And the Children shall Lead' is a bad episode? It's friggin' great. And let's not forget mind control and classic government mis and redirection. A guy who prints free money all day long is bound to be popular and powerful. The only thing more powerful than money are missiles and we only have a couple more than they do. Sorry T'bonz. I'm not even sure about that last statement. Maybe we can give China Broadway and Park place and do their laundry for ten years. Woops, already did that. Sorry.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Lay down the sauce, man.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

Well, Landru is also an actual name. Was "ru" commonly used to mean Russia in the 1960s? The episode seems to be about repressing human nature. In the end people are having arguments and fist fights. Which to the Enterprise crew is being normal.

I'm not suggesting that it was. I just thought it to be a funny coincidence. "Ru" of course signifies Russia today, because of the Internet domain. From a USA perspective in the 60's, the USSR was repressing their people. The "Iron Curtain" metaphor certainly suggests that. The Archons story applies to repression in general, but we do know that Gene thought about the USSR. Take "Omega Glory" for instance... Yankies and Communists.

It's also amazing what people can see when they want to see it.

So you're suggesting I'm delusional and that Star Trek had no political commentary interwoven into their episode stories?

The term "rus" was once used to describe the people and regions of most of what we would today call Russia and parts of Ukraine. I get that Gary7 was joking (although I believe he may possibly be delusional) but I think it is very possible that GR was making a commentary on totalitarian states.

BTW, who is this Obama that everyone is getting so tense about? Is he one of your American Football players?

 

[Scrambo]

Obama is the president of America. Feel sorry for the guy, getting stick for the mess he didnt make & trying to dig the U.S out of a very deep hole (from a uk person point of view)

Anyways: I always thought the "festival" was as most have to said to let off steam but also by letting the people allow to have a mad 'emotional' session meant that Landu could better control people. Afterall built-up emotions can only be a bad thing and would probably act like a virus if allowed to build and build without a release so to speak.

I like Kirk's reasoning shall we call it with Landu, besides which probably without the threat to the enterprise would there really be an episode worthy of creation mind you im sure Kirk would find a way to explain why the prime directive had to be breached but would he have done so without a threat to the enterprise?

 

[plynch]

. . . but would he have done so [messed with the Body] without a threat to the enterprise?

The Apple also had a threat to the E. Does he mess with a happy-but-stagnant culture when there's not a threat? Paradise Syndrome has a threat, right? Darn, it would make a better dilemma and argument set-up between Spock and McCoy if it were a "pure situation" with no contrived threat. Then the threat/suspense would be to Kirk's character, depending on how the viewer sees it. Intervening would make him an imperialist to anti-imperialists; leaving them alone would make him morally weak to those who believe in the need for strife, struggle, and growth.

Somebody write that ep. or novel, wouldja? I'll buy it.
And remember, NO THREAT to the Ent. or plague on Whoziz IV that needs that serum to rendezvous with the USS Ludington in time!

Setup/exposition; proposed way to mess with culture and introduce strife; arguing about prime directive; decision and implementation; denoument; scene of Ent. flying away with Kirk promising a team of advisors.

There, I've done the hard part. Someone take a handfull of uppers like it's Sixties Hollywood and flesh that out overnight.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

. . . but would he have done so [messed with the Body] without a threat to the enterprise?

The Apple also had a threat to the E. Does he mess with a happy-but-stagnant culture when there's not a threat? Paradise Syndrome has a threat, right? Darn, it would make a better dilemma and argument set-up between Spock and McCoy if it were a "pure situation" with no contrived threat. Then the threat/suspense would be to Kirk's character, depending on how the viewer sees it. Intervening would make him an imperialist to anti-imperialists; leaving them alone would make him morally weak to those who believe in the need for strife, struggle, and growth.

Somebody write that ep. or novel, wouldja? I'll buy it.
And remember, NO THREAT to the Ent. or plague on Whoziz IV that needs that serum to rendezvous with the USS Ludington in time!

Setup/exposition; proposed way to mess with culture and introduce strife; arguing about prime directive; decision and implementation; denoument; scene of Ent. flying away with Kirk promising a team of advisors.

There, I've done the hard part. Someone take a handfull of uppers like it's Sixties Hollywood and flesh that out overnight.

I've recently been getting into ENT (got through the first season and have begun the second) and that very idea has come up a few times so far. The ship is NOT in jeopardy and the Captain (and the doctor...in at least one episode so far) has to make the call to interfere. There is much more acknowledged moral ambiguity. However, this series takes place before the PM was ever drawn up, so the writers had a freer hand. I agree that it would have been nice for this to happen in TOS where the PM would pose a very real obstacle like the kind you are referring to above.

 

[plynch]

. . . but would he have done so [messed with the Body] without a threat to the enterprise?

The Apple also had a threat to the E. Does he mess with a happy-but-stagnant culture when there's not a threat? Paradise Syndrome has a threat, right? Darn, it would make a better dilemma and argument set-up between Spock and McCoy if it were a "pure situation" with no contrived threat. Then the threat/suspense would be to Kirk's character, depending on how the viewer sees it. Intervening would make him an imperialist to anti-imperialists; leaving them alone would make him morally weak to those who believe in the need for strife, struggle, and growth.

Somebody write that ep. or novel, wouldja? I'll buy it.
And remember, NO THREAT to the Ent. or plague on Whoziz IV that needs that serum to rendezvous with the USS Ludington in time!

Setup/exposition; proposed way to mess with culture and introduce strife; arguing about prime directive; decision and implementation; denoument; scene of Ent. flying away with Kirk promising a team of advisors.

There, I've done the hard part. Someone take a handfull of uppers like it's Sixties Hollywood and flesh that out overnight.

I've recently been getting into ENT (got through the first season and have begun the second) and that very idea has come up a few times so far. The ship is NOT in jeopardy and the Captain (and the doctor...in at least one episode so far) has to make the call to interfere. There is much more acknowledged moral ambiguity. However, this series takes place before the PM was ever drawn up, so the writers had a freer hand. I agree that it would have been nice for this to happen in TOS where the PM would pose a very real obstacle like the kind you are referring to above.

Time for me to watch through ENT. I watched S1 first-run, then lost interest, but it sounds intriguing. Just saw a 2 parter with Nazi aliens, at a friend's house, and it was ok. I like dilemma eps, b/c at least you might not know how it turns out. If it's just peril, you know the E and regulars will be ok. People killed off only happens as a surprise in Trek, not as a ba d outcome to the main story of the ep. (Jadzia and Tasha). Thanks.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

As far as "The Apple" is concerned - how the fuck can a device that controls the weather on an entire planet and has the power to drag a starship out of orbit be entirely dependent for its fuel on some peasants feeding it fruit every couple of hours or days or whatever? So much so that it experiences a critical drain on its resources almost immediately?

My goddamned smartphone battery lasts longer than that.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

As far as "The Apple" is concerned - how the fuck can a device that controls the weather on an entire planet and has the power to drag a starship out of orbit be entirely dependent for its fuel on some peasants feeding it fruit every couple of hours or days or whatever? So much so that it experiences a critical drain on its resources almost immediately?

My goddamned smartphone battery lasts longer than that.

I don't know if Vaal depended so much on the fruits and veggies that the villagers brought it as it did on their devotion to it. In other words, I think that Vaal was "fueled" by the villagers' brainwaves working together in unison with Vaal's. When Kirk and the rest prevented them from "feeding" Vaal (i.e. engaging in the ritual of worshipping it), it was as though a circuit was cut and the greater power structure (i.e., Vaal) was disabled. Remember that Akuta had those antenna to "hear" Vaal. I don't know, maybe just a far-out idea I have.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Okay, there's nothing in the episode to support that. The story point is very clear: the people feed Vaal fruit to keep it going, and when they're prevented from feeding it fruit (while still regarding it with religious devotion) it falls apart in no time.

Anyway even if the "brainwaves" thing were true, the point is the same: it was designed in such a way that it ceased being able to perform effectively within hours or at most a day or so after being cut off from a constantly replenished energy source. And that energy source, be it brainwaves or fresh fruit, was not exactly highly concentrated, practical fuel for a device that was intended to have total control of the surface of the planet and with the capability of defending it from orbital spacecraft, basically until the end of time.

It's just a stupid episode all around.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

Even if that were true, the point is the same: it was designed in such a way that it ceased being able to perform effectively within hours or at most a day or so after being cut off from a constantly replenished energy source. And that energy source, be it brainwaves or fresh fruit, was not exactly highly concentrated, practical fuel for a device that was intended to have total control of the surface of the planet and with the capability of defending it from orbital spacecraft, basically until the end of time.

It's just a stupid episode all around.

For sure, it was highly inefficient and its security sucked (to say the least). Maybe Vaal was counting on no one ever stopping off on the planet and messing with the system; or up until the Enterprise showed, it had been able to handle previous intruders. Any security system is great until a cleverer intruder comes about to expose its weaknesses. I agree that it is overall a weak episode, but it has some great action and I would take it over Catspaw, or The Lights of Zetar any day.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I admire your ability to make so fine a distinction - I'd rather just leave all three of the episodes named alone as unworthy of my time at this point.

 

[Timo]

I don't really see why the power issue would be a deal-breaker. It wasn't the lack of fruit that caused Vaal's feebleness, it was the strain of fighting Kirk's starship.

We never learned if the fruit played any sort of a role in providing Vaal with energy. Our heroes carefully monitored the energy economy of Vaal, and never noticed any sort of an increase that would have accompanied the feeding ritual. Vaal the machine was never claimed to need fruit - Vaal was merely stated to demand fruit.

Later on, in the kissing scene, we learn that Vaal is far from utilitarian; he has told his people how to dance! The fruit ritual may be just as irrelevant as dancing, in terms of what Vaal needs. But it may be crucially important in keeping the people healthy and happy, and that's what Vaal wants.

The story point is very clear: the people feed Vaal fruit to keep it going, and when they're prevented from feeding it fruit (while still regarding it with religious devotion) it falls apart in no time.

Where do you get this? Nothing of the sort happens in the episode. Instead, our heroes notice that fighting the starship is placing a great strain on Vaal, after which Scotty overloads Vaal with phaser bursts.

True, Kirk says the people must be kept in their huts, kept from feeding Vaal. But that's only natural: Kirk doesn't want any of them wandering into the path of the phaser bombardment!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

entirely dependent for its fuel on some peasants feeding it fruit

on the fruits and veggies

the lack of fruit

You guys know the villager were "feeding" Vaal those exploding rocks, right?

 

[Timo]

...Oops.

Even the TrekCore HD screencaps don't exactly reveal what these guys and gals are holding, and their decorative wristbands confuse the issue further. But I guess you're right - it's another of those infamous alien slave labor mines!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[plynch]

entirely dependent for its fuel on some peasants feeding it fruit

on the fruits and veggies

the lack of fruit

You guys know the villager were "feeding" Vaal those exploding rocks, right?

Wait - seriously?

I LOVE when Spock just chucks the rock earlier. His motion just seems unSpocky, somehow.

And I believe you about the feeding not being necessary, but I sure got the impression it was. It seems like Kirk is trying to starve the beast, but there's no evidence scriptwise. Good eyes, and ears, people.

Peace to all.

 

[Daggin]

One thing that has remained with me all these years, since first seeing it back in the early 70's, is that Lawgiver, and his statement, that kills me...'' YOU WILL BE AB-SORBED''....LOL. I've seen 'Marplon'(Torin Thatcher) in several old tv series/films recently.