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Archived Berman Wisdom...

CoveTom

Vice Admiral
Admiral
The introduction of the new features on the TrekToday home page inspired me to go looking through some old news articles. I found this gem from Rick Berman in November, 2002, a couple of weeks before Nemesis was released:

"I can tell you right now we'll be making another film," Berman told Scott Collura at Cinescape. "There's never been a Star Trek movie that wasn't profitable for Paramount. [...] There's very little risk involved in Star Trek films, so I think we're a long way from seeing the end."

Too bad Nemesis became the first Trek film to not make a profit. Well, he was ultimately right that Trek would continue. But I doubt he envisioned it working out the way it has.
 
The "we're all very pleased" thing simply will HAVE to go on Berman's tombstone. It's always the very first thing I think of whenever his name comes up anywhere.
 
It's not so much that he said it, but he kept using it at times when fan and critical reaction to the shows and movies (not to mention the all-important Nielsen ratings and box-office takes) should have been setting off alarm bells.
 
It's not so much that he said it, but he kept using it at times when fan and critical reaction to the shows and movies (not to mention the all-important Nielsen ratings and box-office takes) should have been setting off alarm bells.
Agreed! :vulcan:This idiot alone with les moonbats will forever go down in history as the MORONS that KILLED televized TREK!:mad:
 
He tried to reach out to the "ordinary" person w/ all the hype and space battles they could endure,..Much like Abrams is doing w/ the new movie. Too bad there was too much "Berman prejudice" to have this film not make a profit.
 
It's not so much that he said it, but he kept using it at times when fan and critical reaction to the shows and movies (not to mention the all-important Nielsen ratings and box-office takes) should have been setting off alarm bells.
Agreed! :vulcan:This idiot alone with les moonbats will forever go down in history as the MORONS that KILLED televized TREK!:mad:
Les Moonbats? Oh, wow, that's mature. He pulled the plug on a low-rated TV show because it wasn't economically feasible for them to keep flushing money down the toilet. He was acting in the best interests of the people he has to answer to — CBS Corp.'s investors.

He tried to reach out to the "ordinary" person w/ all the hype and space battles they could endure,..Much like Abrams is doing w/ the new movie. Too bad there was too much "Berman prejudice" to have this film not make a profit.
Berman prejudice? The film sucked monkey balls, plain and simple. It didn't deserve to make money. You speak like Berman was somehow betrayed by the audience members, when they simply exercised the power of the purse and either went to see something else or stayed home. Nobody's obligated to pay money to see shit, even if it's got the Star Trek name on it.
 
It's not so much that he said it, but he kept using it at times when fan and critical reaction to the shows and movies (not to mention the all-important Nielsen ratings and box-office takes) should have been setting off alarm bells.
Agreed! :vulcan:This idiot alone with les moonbats will forever go down in history as the MORONS that KILLED televized TREK!:mad:
Les Moonbats? Oh, wow, that's mature. He pulled the plug on a low-rated TV show because it wasn't economically feasible for them to keep flushing money down the toilet. He was acting in the best interests of the people he has to answer to — CBS Corp.'s investors.

He tried to reach out to the "ordinary" person w/ all the hype and space battles they could endure,..Much like Abrams is doing w/ the new movie. Too bad there was too much "Berman prejudice" to have this film not make a profit.
Berman prejudice? The film sucked monkey balls, plain and simple. It didn't deserve to make money. You speak like Berman was somehow betrayed by the audience members, when they simply exercised the power of the purse and either went to see something else or stayed home. Nobody's obligated to pay money to see shit, even if it's got the Star Trek name on it.
Your assesmant of the film is very unlike mine. Although I am NOT a big fan of the film, I wouldn't say that it sucked "monkey balls" as you so elegantly put it. Granted the characterization and the direction of the movie was not what TNG was all about, it was still a "watchable" movie.
And yes I will go on to say that it was what I call "Berman prejudice" that with how much hate there was for Berman at the time, (YES hate since I was lurking on this board for years), that these "audience members", mostly fans after reading and posting all over the net that gave these people the option to exercise the "power of the purse". Me being one of the guilty party.
 
I'm not denying that many fans have been prejudiced against Rick Berman for a great many years now, but to blame the poor performance of Nemesis on angry, hateful fans is making excuses for him. He made a crappy movie. He brought a crappy script to his superiors at Paramount, got them to greenlight it, and went with the crappy director they foisted upon him (Baird being owed a directing gig for his emergency editing jobs on M:I-2 and Tomb Raider).

And because people listened to the bad word of mouth and the bad critics' reviews, it's their fault for making the movie a failure? More like it's the movie's fault for being bad. If you still feel guilt for not going to the theater (I assume that's what you mean by saying you're "one of the guilty party") all these years later, that's something you need to work out yourself. Or maybe you can pay me the $8.00 I spent on a ticket; that way, you can feel that you supported Nemesis, and I can be glad I finally got my money back. :p
 
Eighteen years?

Are you going from 1991 to now?

Just wondering.

I agree with Mr. Broccoli because it did die a slow death. The quality steadily eroded under his aegis. You can't deny the diminishing returns of the product under his leadership. I think he was just very pleased to coast along on the success of TNG.
 
Eighteen years?

Are you going from 1991 to now?

Just wondering.

I agree with Mr. Broccoli because it did die a slow death. The quality steadily eroded under his aegis. You can't deny the diminishing returns of the product under his leadership. I think he was just very pleased to coast along on the success of TNG.

I was going from the beginning of TNG.

And I was being sarcastic. Berman didn't kill Trek. He built TNG into the show people generally love today. He created and oversaw DS9, which many people claim is the best Trek ever (and don't give me that crap that Berman had nothing to do with DS9...he may not have been as hands on, but he oversaw ever aspect of that production). Voyager, while not a beloved as TNG or DS9 lasted seven years. I'd say that was pretty successful. ENT lasted four. Granted, not as good as the previous three, four years for any TV show is considered good.

Did Berman have creative burn-out. Probably. Who wouldn't? However, I don't blame Trek's "death" on him. Much of what he (and his writers) wanted to do was nixed by UPN. "Year of Hell" being a year-long story arc. Nixed. Wating a year to recharge the batteries before starting ENT. Nixed. ENT's first season being completely set on Earth. Nixed.

True, he made his goofs and mistakes along the way, but is he the evil spawn some people make him out to be? Not even close.

Besides, if Trek was dead, no one would care about a new movie (any movie), still be buying the merchandise (toys, DVDs, etc), going to conventions, or coming here.

All that said, the OP's inital post is pretty amusing.
 
Broccoli, Berman had very little to do with DS9 except to say 'no' to various things they wanted to do, and to keep his post people on them so they couldn't score the show well and the usual 'taste' drivel.

Berman pissed on TNG from year 1, and any other show would have been cancelled in yr1 or yr2, which would have served him right for his choices. Ever read about some of the meeting Probert suffered through there? Ever read anything of Berman's view of TOS? Or his ideas about scoring? I'm not even getting into his 'creative' contributions in the writing area, I'm just talking about producer stuff, like letting Hurley gladiator the staff away. About the only good thing that came out of Berman was Piller, and that was a back-end solution, since Piller was a replacement for Wagner, who walked right away.

Berman made the trains run on time. The trains were usually full of corpses, but they ran. And he didn't derail DS9 off the tracks, so that is his 'good' legacy. The rest is just crap, or at best mediocrity (tng)

And the trek/dead thing? Who cares? It would have cycled, and I could have done without hundreds of hours of BermanModernTrek rather easily, especially since it often pissed on good concepts that could have been better explored on a superior show, like the dyson sphere for instance, which was just a gimmick on RELICS.
 
^ That's the same stuff that Berman-haters have loved to spout for years, encouraged in part by comments by people who Berman wouldn't let run wild over Star Trek, like Ron Moore.

To suggest, as you do and has others have done, that Berman was the executive producer and final authority for all of those years, but that he was not responsible for ANYTHING good that happened and was responsible for EVERYTHING bad that happened is absurd.

First off, Piller, Behr, and others that fans idolize so much could not have done anything without the consent of Rick Berman. He was involved in every aspect of the production of the shows. He was the one who selected those producers, in fact, which is one of the responsibilities of the guy running the show.

Second, your statements about TNG are a little off. Berman was not the guy in charge for seasons 1 or 2. That was Gene Roddenberry. His health had not failed yet and he was firmly in place as the commander-in-chief. The battles he had with writers, producers, designers, and so forth were legendary. It was he, not Berman, who caused the revolving door of creative staff during the first two years. And it was under his tenure, not Berman's, that TNG, if not outright sucking, at least was achieving nowhere near its potential. It was only when Berman became firmly in charge around season 3, and with him a different creative team working under him, that TNG started to become what we all love. Did Roddenberry make some decisions that I preferred to Berman? Sure. I prefer Roddenberry's take on the music, for example. But, by and large, TNG was a hell of a lot better once Berman took over.

Third, I don't buy this nonsense that some involved with DS9's production have tried to put out that suggests that Rick Berman was just involved enough with DS9 to put the lid on lots of good ideas that could have been, but wasn't involved enough to ever contribute anything good. Again, that's ridiculous. Berman was involved in every major decision involving DS9 from the beginning through the end. In fact, he caught alot of the flack from the studio over things they were doing on that show and protected the show from it. Were it not for Berman's influence and credibility coming off of the years of successful Trek he had produced, DS9 would probably not have gotten away with the war arc, for example.

Did Trek begin to wane under Berman's Voyager and Enterprise tenure? Sure. But as others have pointed out, (1) it's very reasonable for someone in charge of a franchise like that to suffer burn-out after many years and (2) once UPN was involved they managed to put a stop to every potentially different or unique thing Berman wanted to do. He argued against bringing Enterprise out so quickly, but they insisted. He wanted to do something different with the first season of Enterprise, but they refused. Etc.

In short, Berman made both good decisions and bad decisions during his tenure with Star Trek, and he produced some classics and some crap. But he managed to keep Trek alive and kicking through four series, four movies, and ~15-18 years (depending on when you consider him starting). And he was in charge for some of the most loved and widely praised Trek. To blanketly characterize him as responsible for all that is bad with Trek is unfair and unjustified.
 
^ That's the same stuff that Berman-haters have loved to spout for years, encouraged in part by comments by people who Berman wouldn't let run wild over Star Trek, like Ron Moore.

To suggest, as you do and has others have done, that Berman was the executive producer and final authority for all of those years, but that he was not responsible for ANYTHING good that happened and was responsible for EVERYTHING bad that happened is absurd.

First off, Piller, Behr, and others that fans idolize so much could not have done anything without the consent of Rick Berman. He was involved in every aspect of the production of the shows. He was the one who selected those producers, in fact, which is one of the responsibilities of the guy running the show.

Second, your statements about TNG are a little off. Berman was not the guy in charge for seasons 1 or 2. That was Gene Roddenberry. His health had not failed yet and he was firmly in place as the commander-in-chief. The battles he had with writers, producers, designers, and so forth were legendary. It was he, not Berman, who caused the revolving door of creative staff during the first two years. And it was under his tenure, not Berman's, that TNG, if not outright sucking, at least was achieving nowhere near its potential. It was only when Berman became firmly in charge around season 3, and with him a different creative team working under him, that TNG started to become what we all love. Did Roddenberry make some decisions that I preferred to Berman? Sure. I prefer Roddenberry's take on the music, for example. But, by and large, TNG was a hell of a lot better once Berman took over.

Third, I don't buy this nonsense that some involved with DS9's production have tried to put out that suggests that Rick Berman was just involved enough with DS9 to put the lid on lots of good ideas that could have been, but wasn't involved enough to ever contribute anything good. Again, that's ridiculous. Berman was involved in every major decision involving DS9 from the beginning through the end. In fact, he caught alot of the flack from the studio over things they were doing on that show and protected the show from it. Were it not for Berman's influence and credibility coming off of the years of successful Trek he had produced, DS9 would probably not have gotten away with the war arc, for example.

Did Trek begin to wane under Berman's Voyager and Enterprise tenure? Sure. But as others have pointed out, (1) it's very reasonable for someone in charge of a franchise like that to suffer burn-out after many years and (2) once UPN was involved they managed to put a stop to every potentially different or unique thing Berman wanted to do. He argued against bringing Enterprise out so quickly, but they insisted. He wanted to do something different with the first season of Enterprise, but they refused. Etc.

In short, Berman made both good decisions and bad decisions during his tenure with Star Trek, and he produced some classics and some crap. But he managed to keep Trek alive and kicking through four series, four movies, and ~15-18 years (depending on when you consider him starting). And he was in charge for some of the most loved and widely praised Trek. To blanketly characterize him as responsible for all that is bad with Trek is unfair and unjustified.

Since I don't find much to love in TNG or the others outside of ds9, it is EASY for me to say the buck stops with Berman. His taste or lack thereof poisoned the whole moderntrek look and feel, and that extends in part to ds9 as well.

GR was not as involved as you think, esp by season 2. Berman and Hurley had divided things up pretty early on, and I guess Berman let Hurley hang himself over time.

for me, Berman running trek is like Ken Ralston, a guy who didn't like the design of the enterprise, getting to do the vfx for trekfilms. You're not the guy who should be doing this, it should be somebody else. And I'd've been happy with 2 or 3 years of good trek instead of 18+ bad seasons of moderntrek.

And just to be clear: I have been critical of Berman as far back as I knew the guy's name, from CFQ's coverage of the show in 89 or so. And things he has had to say about productions he knows little about (like TUC) make it clear to me that he has no problem spouting off nonesense when called upon to produce a soundbyte, which ain't my idea of admirable.
 
Since I don't find much to love in TNG or the others outside of ds9, it is EASY for me to say the buck stops with Berman. His taste or lack thereof poisoned the whole moderntrek look and feel, and that extends in part to ds9 as well.

GR was not as involved as you think, esp by season 2. Berman and Hurley had divided things up pretty early on, and I guess Berman let Hurley hang himself over time.

for me, Berman running trek is like Ken Ralston, a guy who didn't like the design of the enterprise, getting to do the vfx for trekfilms. You're not the guy who should be doing this, it should be somebody else. And I'd've been happy with 2 or 3 years of good trek instead of 18+ bad seasons of moderntrek.

And just to be clear: I have been critical of Berman as far back as I knew the guy's name, from CFQ's coverage of the show in 89 or so. And things he has had to say about productions he knows little about (like TUC) make it clear to me that he has no problem spouting off nonesense when called upon to produce a soundbyte, which ain't my idea of admirable.
If you personally don't care for TNG or any of modern Trek and you want to say that you think Berman's direction led to the things you dislike, that's fair and I understand that.

What I can't tolerate are those who have great things to say about TNG, DS9, even sometimes Voyager and Enterprise, but who want to claim that Berman gets none of the credit for the things they like and all of the blame for things they don't. To be sure, folks like Michael Piller, Ira Steven Behr, Ronald D. Moore, Jeri Taylor, and others had major influences on the shows. But to claim that you love the show but not acknowledge that it's executive producer had something to do with its quality and success is just "head in the sand" hatred for Berman.
 
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