Spoilers Aquaman - Grading and Discussion

[Leo Star Dragon 1]

Aloha! I saw it again at the same place. This time I was aware of the music. I did see Julie Andrews name this time. (I was expecting to hear, "Kraken", not something that sounds more like, "Carpathia". So I looked for a name that began with a "C".)

Oops! Interference. Sigh. To be continued.

 

[Guy Gardener]

How is Amanda Waller this asleep at the wheel?

Killer Croc may be able to process Salt Water, but then again maybe he can't.

In the comics Black Manta is Squad.

Either Manta, or his father who was in charge until his death, could have been playing a double agent for Waller, until the father got murdered by Aquaman and then their loyalty was in the wind.

After 30 years of sewage from billions of humans washes up on every beachfront, The global economy is gone, so that "pirate gold" at that moment in time was worthless, so beyond revenge, Manta was playing a losing hand, and surface world human civilization is already over.

 

[theenglish]

I was particularly impressed with Willem Dafoe, whose performance as Vulko showed that he has the gravitas and range to play more than just the bad guy.

Should hope so considering the length and breadth of his career. He's been pretty much played every type of role in his career, including Christ himself.

 

[DigificWriter]

Should hope so considering the length and breadth of his career. He's been pretty much played every type of role in his career, including Christ himself.

I guess my exposure to him is limited, then, because I only know him for his villainous roles.

 

[Aragorn]

Willem Dafoe's resume might be a lot like Gary Oldman's, where the majority of his blockbuster work is as the bad guy but overall he's played a lot more than just that.

 

[Nyotarules]

Saw it on Thursday, will see it again! Great look for Aquaman

 

[JD]

The way ray guns work underwater is to be self-propelled projectiles. The boiling water doesn't disappear when the ray vanishes. You wouldn't say super high tech figure out a way for ovens to boil water that don't scald when the cook fishes something out of the pot.

Not one creature of the undersea abyss is superstrong to resist the pressure of the ocean. Internal pressure equals the external pressure. An open balloon can sink to the bottom of the Marianas trench without using any tensile strength at all. To be sure, keeping lungs full of air at sea level atmospheric pressure from collapsing would require superstrength. But the Atlanteans breathe water.

If these things don't come to mind the moment you see the screen, no doubt it is easier to willingly suspend disbelief. But if such thoughts do force themselves during the movie, long before leaving the theater, they can't be erased at will.

None of that ever even occurred to me, but to be honest I cannot think of a single time thoughts like that have ever occurred to me. The movie never even tried to imply that it was scientifically plausible, so I never thought to try to consider anything we saw in it from that perspective.
Unless the movie is specifically promoted as hard sci-fi, then scientific accuracy is not any kind of a concern for me.

 

[EnderAKH]

None of that ever even occurred to me, but to be honest I cannot think of a single time thoughts like that have ever occurred to me. The movie never even tried to imply that it was scientifically plausible, so I never thought to try to consider anything we saw in it from that perspective.
Unless the movie is specifically promoted as hard sci-fi, then scientific accuracy is not any kind of a concern for me.

Yeah, this is a universe that postulates merely exposure to a different color wavelength of sun can give one superhuman strength, invulnerability, eye lasers, super breath, and the ability to teanscend gravity. Scientific accuracy in superhero fiction is not something I have ever looked for.

 

[stj]

Hard SF isn't a textbook. Most of its science is fiction. It's a question of style: Shocking ignorance is bad style. Noticing gross stupidity on screen is not pedantry. If someone saw a period piece where George Washington attacked the British with lasers, they wouldn't simply dismiss an objection to the scene. I hope. If a cop in today's Manhattan suddenly lassoed a criminal, would anyone really think it a real answer to announce cop movies aren't realistic?

 

[JD]

Those examples really aren't the same as the stuff we see in Aquaman since they are actual real things that people would expect to see recreated accurately, most of the time. Honestly I can think of several different completely plausible scenarios where #2 could happen.
I'm just don't go into movie like Aquaman expecting even the slightest bit of scientific accuracy, it's just not that kind of movie. Now if this was something like Europa Report, or The Martian that seemed to be trying to go for a bit more scientific accuracy, that would be a different story. For me it all depends on what kind of movie it is and what kind expectations are set up.

 

[EnderAKH]

Hard SF isn't a textbook. Most of its science is fiction. It's a question of style: Shocking ignorance is bad style. Noticing gross stupidity on screen is not pedantry. If someone saw a period piece where George Washington attacked the British with lasers, they wouldn't simply dismiss an objection to the scene. I hope. If a cop in today's Manhattan suddenly lassoed a criminal, would anyone really think it a real answer to announce cop movies aren't realistic?

But superhero fiction is nowhere near hard SF. The entire genre is fantasy sci-fi. So you should know what you are getting going in. There is no biological mechanism that would allow someone to shoot red force beams out of their eyes nor transform into a totally different being after being exposed to radiation. These are the tropes of the genre. If you cannot accept them, I would respectfully suggest that perhaps mainstream superhero fiction is not for you.

 

[stj]

But superhero fiction is nowhere near hard SF. The entire genre is fantasy sci-fi. So you should know what you are getting going in. There is no biological mechanism that would allow someone to shoot red force beams out of their eyes nor transform into a totally different being after being exposed to radiation. These are the tropes of the genre. If you cannot accept them, I would respectfully suggest that perhaps mainstream superhero fiction is not for you.

Sorry but "fantasy sci-fi" isn't a genre. Furthermore, there is a difference between accepting the tropes of a genre and accepting that entails ordinary things don't act the way they really do. You can pretend (especially with the help of FX, so that you see it,) someone can shoot red force beams out of their eyes, as a premise. That does not mean you are obligated to accept that shrapnel from the force beams can't cut anyone. There is an implicit self-contradiction.

And, on a personal note, all the indignation was provoked by "In the end, you can either put up with rayguns and swords at the same time, or you can't. I'm not proud but I took it for two hours." I'm not the one being touchy. But only dogma can declare it's heresy to point out difficulties in willing suspension of disbelief. Like all acts of will, it's not just a matter of conscious volition. (And yes, all notions of will that limit it to conscious decisions are false.)

 

[DigificWriter]

Sorry but "fantasy sci-fi" isn't a genre.

Star Wars, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, Atlantis: The Lost Empire, The Golden Compass, Mortal Engines, Howl's Moving Castle, Hugo, and Sucker Punch beg to differ.

 

[stj]

Haven't seen Atlantis, Mortal Engines, Hugo and Sucker Punch. But Star Wars, The Golden Compass, Sky Captain and Howl's Moving Castle aren't the same genre. Howl's Moving Castle and Golden Compass are a romance and a philosophical allegory, respectively. Vague allusions to other worlds that don't play a role in the story don't matter. Sky Captain is a bloated parody of comic strips. Star Wars has the Force, which stands in for God. Every movie that has God or prophecy counts as "fantasy scif-fi." Twaddle

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Howl's Moving Castle, Hugo, Mortal Engines, and The Golden Compass are explicitly classified as Fantasy films, as are the novels upon which they are based.

Howl's, Hugo, Mortal Engines, and The Golden Compass are also all decidedly Steampunk properties, as are Sucker Punch and Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.

Star Wars is also borderline Steampunk, and also draws very heavy on High Fantasy tropes.

So you really don't know what you're talking about in regards to "science fantasy" not being a genre.

 

[stj]

If Howl's Moving Castle, Hugo, Mortal Engines, and The Golden Compass are explicitly classified as Fantasy films, then it is an egregious mistake to claim they are "fantasy sci-fi." Nonetheless, Howl's Moving Castle is a love story, while the philosophical allegory in Pullman's trilogy is absolutely essential.

You seem to think "tropes," furniture so to speak, are essential to genre. I disagree. That kind of thinking is like classifying a dolphin as a fish, in my opinion. Neither Howl's nor Compass are "Steampunk." I'm not sure nothing without a blend of steam engines and the fantastic should count as steampunk, especially using the superficial trope standard. A story that is set in a British Empire in a way that drives the narrative, like the frontier drives a Western, seems to me to be steampunk. Like most Westerns glorifying the conquest of the frontier, most steampunk appears to be about glorifying the British Empire.

Sky Captain is barely a story. I suppose you could find a Taming of the Shrew story in there, but that's not steampunk, nor sci-fi, nor fantasy.

Star Wars is probably the closest anyone can come to pretending "fantasy sci-fi" is really a thing. But, hard cases make bad law. Also, one example does not a genre make.

At root, the problem seems to be trying to use "fantasy" as a claim that any kind of nonsense is acceptable. This is bad criticism I think.

 

[Leo Star Dragon 1]

Hard SF isn't a textbook. Most of its science is fiction. It's a question of style: Shocking ignorance is bad style. Noticing gross stupidity on screen is not pedantry. If someone saw a period piece where George Washington attacked the British with lasers, they wouldn't simply dismiss an objection to the scene. I hope. If a cop in today's Manhattan suddenly lassoed a criminal, would anyone really think it a real answer to announce cop movies aren't realistic?

Hello! Did you just reference, "McCloud"?!

 

[Leo Star Dragon 1]

Hello! Did you just reference, "McCloud"?!

Drat! I'll just have to reply to myself. Ahem.
In the "DC Universe", they sought to have a compromise, term wise, to account for having Fantasy inspired characters co-existing with Science-Fiction inspired characters, hence "Fantasy Sci-Fi". For example, Wonder Woman is an example of Fantasy, while Batman is supposed to an example of, Science-Fiction. This was because they acknowledged that, "Magic", is a Force of Nature unto itself, in a different way than how "Marvel" tried to explain how their version of, "Magic", isn't "Fantasy", but actually fits with their version of, "Science-Fiction".

In "DC" terms, they differentiate between the (Mystic) Power known as, "Sorcery", and the (Physical) Power known as, "Omnipower", for example. (Not to be confused with, "Omnipotency"!) Both Powers are two different methods of being able to simulate the other Powers and if I recall right, Skills too.

For example, though she isn't a "DC" character, in an episode of, "Bewitched", Serena, she used her Witchcraft Magic, to temporarily make herself a Black Belt so that she could break a board, bare handed.
(I'm thinking that she said, "Judo", but she should have said, "Karate".)

Compare her to, Sabrina Spellman, who joined a Kung Fu class, but out of fear at a tournament, she too used her Witchcraft Magic to win, to avoid her problem. But Guilt made her undo that spell, and learned the martial art in the usual way, and redeemed herself by the episode's end.

That set her up for an episode that spoofed Buffy Summers, in which she had to fight a vampire. But instead of the wooden stake that wanted, she was sent a raw beef steak, but she was still able to kill her vampire!

But anyway.....

 

[Jaster]

I went to see this last night with zero expectations and spoilers. Superb comic book stuff. I was entertained and give it a solid A.

a period piece where George Washington attacked the British with lasers

Am I the only one who needs to see this on screen now?

 

[JD]

Sorry but "fantasy sci-fi" isn't a genre. Furthermore, there is a difference between accepting the tropes of a genre and accepting that entails ordinary things don't act the way they really do. You can pretend (especially with the help of FX, so that you see it,) someone can shoot red force beams out of their eyes, as a premise. That does not mean you are obligated to accept that shrapnel from the force beams can't cut anyone. There is an implicit self-contradiction.

Gotta disagree, science-fantasy is definitely a genre, it's anything that combines elements of both fantasy and sci-fi. Star Wars is by far the best example, it takes a lot of the tropes of epic fantasy, with knights (the Jedi), princesses, and magic (The Force), and puts a sci-fi twist on top of them.
And swords and rayguns aka "sword and planet" has been a thing for a very long time.
You might not like them, but that doesn't change the fact that they are legitimate genres with a pretty extensive history, and a lot of fans, myself among them.