AQ/GQ species as Drones in DQ...

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Watching Voyager I have seen several species from the AQ, most likely assimiltated at Wolf-359 that Voyager encountered in the DQ. I saw Bajorians, Klingons, Cardaissians, Humans, Vulcans and Romulans and several other AQ species. My questions is did the BORG assissmilate any GQ species, and if they did were they ever shown on Voyager...

 

[Finn]

I don't know if there is any canonical evidence of this. But it is most likely since the Borg has been around for a long time and chances are very good that at least several GQ races made it to the Delta Quadrant at one point or other while Borg probably sent ships over there since there's nothing keeping them (Hey, they went after Fludic Space without provocation).

 

[Tom]

It's still rather fuzzy how anyone assimilated at Wolf 359 got to the GQ since the lone Borg cube was distroyed near Earth. It would almost imply that another Borg ship somehow met with that cube, transfered personal, and went back to the DQ. It really makes not sense, but Voyager just retro-conned that all in.

 

[Finn]

^First Contact did it first, before they even showed up on Voyager.

 

[Tom]

^First Contact did it first, before they even showed up on Voyager.

Yeah talk about an obvious retro-con, the queen was now on the Cube with Picard also. Still, the Queen's situation is different, as we know when the Queen dies another takes over . So the queen dies in BOBW and another one takes over for her in the DQ. That does not apply to assimilated Wolf 359 people, they died on that cube, unless they hooked up with another Borg vessel along the way to Earth and then that other vessel took a transwarp conduit back to the DQ, thats the only logical (yet very, very improbable) explanation.

Edit: Ok, I just thought of something else based on the Enterprise episode 'Regeneration' , What if some Borg were left behind on some of the crippled ships in Wolf 359, they assimilated surviving federation crew then repaired/renegerated one of the crippled Federation vessels like they did with the transport in 'Regeneration' and headed towards the DQ (maybe took a transwarp conduit as well to speed it up).

It's too bad we we saw the Saratoga blow up in 'The Emmisary' otherwise there could of been a Jennifer Sisko is a borg story!!

 

[propita]

Edit: Ok, I just thought of something else based on the Enterprise episode 'Regeneration' , What if some Borg were left behind on some of the crippled ships in Wolf 359, they assimilated surviving federation crew then repaired/renegerated one of the crippled Federation vessels like they did with the transport in 'Regeneration' and headed towards the DQ (maybe took a transwarp conduit as well to speed it up).

It's too bad we we saw the Saratoga blow up in 'The Emmisary' otherwise there could of been a Jennifer Sisko is a borg story!!

Wasn't there a line about the Borg assimilating people on the various AQ ships?

Also, weren't there various comments during TNG that ships had gone missing. Even if it were "near the Romulan border" that doesn't mean the Romulans were the cause.

And we know that Guinan's peple had a run-in with the Borg. (Boy, that was a mess of continuity, what with the Federation being ignorant about them when her people were well-acquainted with them.) So why couldn't other people have "met up with" the Borg, but not mentioned on TNG? The Enterprise wasn't the entire Federation.

 

[Plecostomus]

Maybe the exploding cube launched some kind of escape-pod/sphere something or other. It could have zipped away unnoticed because everyone was busy doing the "HOORAY WE ARE GOING TO SURVIVE" dance and not watching the sensors?

Actually I like the Borg stealing a smashed ship from the Graveyard and leaving on that. Lotsa story ideas there.

 

[Marie1]

We haven't seen GQ species, and I think it it were possible, then we would have seen a lot. I mean, its been debated round and round- the usual consensus is that the Dominion would win as the Jem'Hadar are vicious with bladed weapons and can shroud, the Vorta are cowards, and can self terminate, and the Founders can probably resist assimilatation ( there are far too many threads in the DS9 forum... waaayyyy toooo many!!!).

But you'd think if the Borg had GQ species, they'd be scooping up Jem'Hadar by the ton. But we've never seen one. And who wants shrouding Borg? Which is probably why its conveniently never happened on screen.

 

[Finn]

Actually we probably already have, since we know very little about the GQ, and we don't know how much of the quadrant the Dominion controls. Borg might have visted the quadrant outside of the Dominion. So some of those random races we've seen might be from the GQ originally.

 

[VulcanGuy]

We haven't seen GQ species, and I think it it were possible, then we would have seen a lot. I mean, its been debated round and round- the usual consensus is that the Dominion would win as the Jem'Hadar are vicious with bladed weapons and can shroud, the Vorta are cowards, and can self terminate, and the Founders can probably resist assimilatation ( there are far too many threads in the DS9 forum... waaayyyy toooo many!!!).

But you'd think if the Borg had GQ species, they'd be scooping up Jem'Hadar by the ton. But we've never seen one. And who wants shrouding Borg? Which is probably why its conveniently never happened on screen.

why would they even want to assimilate the jem'hadar? they are subservient and have a very low intelligence, but most of all they only live 10-15 years. it would take a lot of effort for the borg to assimilate them and only have a pay off for 10 years.

 

[Timo]

Low intelligence? How so? We've seen cunning and guile whenever these folks get away from their Vorta, even though the normal mode of operations is indeed subservience and sprouting of stale propaganda.

VOY established that the Borg get effortlessly to any galactic location, and made it look as if this was a longstanding Borg feature, perhaps hundreds of millennia old. It would make it almost inevitable that some Gamma species be assimilated; it also makes it very likely that every encounter of Wolf 359 ilk ends with the victor sending a few samples back home, either by using a fast courier, or (as argued above) by turning one or more of the defeated vessels into Borg ships.

It just doesn't make sense to think of the Borg as a Delta Quadrant species in view of the evidence from VOY. They are everywhere, and apparently have been for a long time. It's just that, as per "Dark Frontier", they don't advertise their presence much...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[VulcanGuy]

Low intelligence? How so? We've seen cunning and guile whenever these folks get away from their Vorta, even though the normal mode of operations is indeed subservience and sprouting of stale propaganda.

We know that their subservience comes from implanted genetics by the founders and isn't based on conditioning after birth so how can we assume that the nanoprobes could overwrite it?

VOY established that the Borg get effortlessly to any galactic location, and made it look as if this was a longstanding Borg feature

I understand that they can move across space very, very quickly. My point was trying to assimilate such loyal and committed soldiers would turn out disastrous. The Jem'Hadar have no qualms about ramming enemy vessels. I just don't see how it would be 'efficient' for the Borg to assimilate such a species. The lure would be the Jem'Hadar strength, but they would SURELY lose more drones than what they would gain. The same lure was present when they tried to assimilate the very powerful 8472 and look how that turned out. They lost millions of drones and hundreds of worlds.

 

[Timo]

We know that their subservience comes from implanted genetics by the founders and isn't based on conditioning after birth so how can we assume that the nanoprobes could overwrite it?

Why would it need to be overwritten, though? The Jem'Hadar are perfectly capable of rebelling against the Vorta, or attacking Odo, or fighting their own kin, or devising their escape from the clutches of the Ketracel White addiction. Even if there remains some sort of vestigial respect of the Founders despite this evidenced freedom of operation, this doesn't stop an assimilated Jem'Hadar from waging war against the Dominion - unless the Jem'Hadar Drone comes face to face with a Founder, which would probably happen exceedingly seldom. After all, it's not as if the Jem'Hadar in Dominion service would be likely to meet a Founder even once in their life, either.

We have little evidence that assimilated humanoids would display their inborn characteristics. We haven't seen a greedy Ferengi Drone, or a cocky and sadistic Cardassian one, or a swaggering Klingon one. Drones just don't exhibit "behavior" of any sort much. It need not be a major problem to have a Jem'Hadar in the ranks, then: deep inside, he might have all sorts of strange thoughts about serving the Founders and earning back his life through victory and whatnot, but that wouldn't matter because externally he would be a loyal Drone under the guidance of the local Viniculum.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[VulcanGuy]

Why would it need to be overwritten, though? The Jem'Hadar are perfectly capable of rebelling against the Vorta, or attacking Odo, or fighting their own kin, or devising their escape from the clutches of the Ketracel White addiction. Even if there remains some sort of vestigial respect of the Founders despite this evidenced freedom of operation, this doesn't stop an assimilated Jem'Hadar from waging war against the Dominion - unless the Jem'Hadar Drone comes face to face with a Founder, which would probably happen exceedingly seldom. After all, it's not as if the Jem'Hadar in Dominion service would be likely to meet a Founder even once in their life, either.

We have little evidence that assimilated humanoids would display their inborn characteristics. We haven't seen a greedy Ferengi Drone, or a cocky and sadistic Cardassian one, or a swaggering Klingon one. Drones just don't exhibit "behavior" of any sort much. It need not be a major problem to have a Jem'Hadar in the ranks, then: deep inside, he might have all sorts of strange thoughts about serving the Founders and earning back his life through victory and whatnot, but that wouldn't matter because externally he would be a loyal Drone under the guidance of the local Viniculum.

Timo Saloniemi

You're probably right on the behavior being able to be overwritten, but what if the Founders had made it impossible for them to be assimilated?

Lets assume they didn't and they can be assimilated. When encountered with imminent assimilation they would just turn their ships into gigantic torpedoes and ram the Cubes or if their ships were disabled they would commit suicide.

Another problem is still their age. At the very most 10 years of service to the Collective as hardly any ever reach 20. I just don't see the point in assimilating them where the risks (ramming, suicide, possibly encountering biological problems) and pay off is so low.

The Borg would only battle the Dominion if they were to ever become under threat and be in need of self defense rather than aggressive assimilation.

 

[Timo]

It's not as if the Borg ever really seem to assimilate for the sake of gathering Drones. They just sample what they encounter at first, then assimilate those who are willing to receive the blessings of being a Drone (or helpless to resist), and accept that there will be casualties there from futile resistance. They'd eventually get a few Jem'Hadar, too - just like they get Romulans who also are prone to suicidal gestures. Those would then "add to the distinctiveness", and would "enjoy improved quality of life", even if 99% of the Jem'Hadar died resisting.

The Dominion is probably in a phase of development that is similar to the UFP: they still resist assimilation by developing new weapons and tactics, and thus are better left alive and a-kicking than completely assimilated. The new weapons and tactics need to be assimilated constantly, though, which would mean grabbing a few Jem'Hadar here and there. It's not an investment calling for return - it's a gesture of charity towards the assimilees!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[black_dranzer]

We know that their subservience comes from implanted genetics by the founders and isn't based on conditioning after birth so how can we assume that the nanoprobes could overwrite it?

As Weyoun said - "The Founders' ability to control the Jem'Hadar has been somewhat...overstated. That's why we had to addict them to the white in the first place". The Jem'Hadar's genetic engineering doesn't make them loyal beyond all doubt to the Founders in any circumstance (as we have seen multiple times that that's not the case), therefore it's reasonable to assume that if they were assimilated into the hive mind then they would behave in the same manner as any other assimilated species.

 

[Deks]

We know that their subservience comes from implanted genetics by the founders and isn't based on conditioning after birth so how can we assume that the nanoprobes could overwrite it?

As Weyoun said - "The Founders' ability to control the Jem'Hadar has been somewhat...overstated. That's why we had to addict them to the white in the first place". The Jem'Hadar's genetic engineering doesn't make them loyal beyond all doubt to the Founders in any circumstance (as we have seen multiple times that that's not the case), therefore it's reasonable to assume that if they were assimilated into the hive mind then they would behave in the same manner as any other assimilated species.

I'd also like to add that nanoprobes were stated to alter the individuals DNA itself.
The 'founders' created Jem'Hadar and their 'worshiping' through DNA manipulation.
The Borg are far more advanced and the nanoprobes would be able to overwrite the original programming.