Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season 3?

[WendyNotsid]

I think one of the biggest problems with the third season (apart from the fact that the characters, particularly Spock, often acted OOC). Was how often they relied on the "Kirk gets kidnapped/trapped/separated" storyline. Think about it:

The Tholian Web: Kirk gets trapped between dimensions
Paradise Syndrome: Kirk has amnesia and is cut off from the ship
Wink of an Eye: Kirk gets caught by accelerated aliens
Spectre of the Gun: Kirk and others get caught in fantasy world
Whom Gods Destroy: Kirk and the others are captured and held in insane asylum by crazy Captain Dude
Plato's Stepchildren: Kirk and the others are trapped by the Platonians
Cloud Minders: Kirk is kidnapped and trapped in the mine
Mark of Gideon: Gideon people hold Kirk to use his blood so they can die
All Our Yesterdays: Trapped on Sarpeidon, in the 19th century era, 19th century era prison, and the library ( THAT'S FOUR DEGREES OF BEING CAPTURED/TRAPPED)
Tournabout Intruder: Trapped in a sick woman's body

He went from the hero to being Daphne from Scooby-Doo. That's TEN Episodes where Kirk is caught/abducted/cut off from the Enterprise. TEN FREAKING EPISODES IN A TWENTY-THREE EPISODE SEASON.

Now, I know Roddenberry pretty much washed his hands of the third season, but I find it hard to believe that he was the only one who would have noticed this. I get that there wasn't as much effort put in since the show was pretty much doomed to cancellation, but there's slacking off and then there's just plain stupidity. I mean, wasn't DC Fontana still script consultant? I have a hard time believing she would have kept on with that if she didn't still care about the series. Kirk got abducted in the third season more often than he got laid. I mean yeah, he got abducted before, but it was usually along with a large number of others, and often he was the one who saved others from being trapped, like in This Side of Paradise. Watching the full run of Star Trek sometimes reminds of movies where they have this kick-ass female character who pretty much spends the first chunk of the movie out-duding the dudes, then, the minute the plot calls for it, suddenly becomes a hapless moron who is easily kidnapped by people she should be able to beat the crap out of according to the earlier part of the film all so that the main male protagonist can save her.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

He went from the hero to being Daphne from Scooby-Doo. That's TEN Episodes where Kirk is caught/abducted/cut off from the Enterprise. TEN FREAKING EPISODES IN A TWENTY-THREE EPISODE SEASON.

* They weren't expecting people to be analysing the eps four decades later.

* They were aiming to get 100 eps for future syndication security, and daily syndicated episodes were rarely shown in order.

* They were probably dealing with a pile of rejected scripts from the previous seasons. Remember they were attempting to satisfy an increasingly-dissatisfied Shatner, so any eps originally pitched as some-other-character gets "caught/abducted/cut off from the Enterprise" would have been repurposed as a Kirk vehicle.

 

[Anji]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

It's the Fred Freiberger style of producing. Watch any episode of Space: 1999 (which he also produced) and see how similar it is to Star Trek Season 3.

 

[Navigator_NCC2120]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

It's the Fred Freiberger style of producing. Watch any episode of Space: 1999 (which he also produced) and see how similar it is to Star Trek Season 3.

I agree with you Anji, but Fred Freiberger only produced the second season of "Space: 1999", which was terrible, a monster of the week type of series. However, I did like the first season of "Space: 1999", which was produced by husband and wife team Gerry and Sylvia Anderson. Gerry Anderson probably regrets having worked with Fred on season 2 of the show.


Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
/\

 

[Isis]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

Hi Wendy:

I agree with you in part. First of all, I would subtract out all the episodes in which Kirk was not the only "damsel in distress." That leaves us with only 6 episodes--see asterisks below:

*The Tholian Web: Kirk gets trapped between dimensions
*Paradise Syndrome: Kirk has amnesia and is cut off from the ship
*Wink of an Eye: Kirk gets caught by accelerated aliens
Spectre of the Gun: Kirk and OTHERS get caught in fantasy world
Whom Gods Destroy: Kirk and the OTHERS are captured and held in insane asylum by crazy Captain Dude
Plato's Stepchildren: Kirk and the OTHERS are trapped by the Platonians
*Cloud Minders: Kirk is kidnapped and trapped in the mine
*Mark of Gideon: Gideon people hold Kirk to use his blood so they can die
All Our Yesterdays: Trapped on Sarpeidon, in the 19th century era, 19th century era prison, and the library; OTHERS trapped in frozen wasteland
*Turnabout Intruder: Trapped in a sick woman's body

Nevertheless, even with the count down to 6 shows, I would agree that the "damsel in distress" element detracts from the quality of the third season. However, this was only one of many deficiencies of that season. You yourself brought up that Spock sometimes acted out of character (one example that readily comes to my mind is Spock in "The Way to Eden" as exemplified by his participation in the hippie singalong). Others problems included too much emphasis (IMO) on the "big three"/loss of the ensemble feel, poor plots ("And the Children Shall Lead," among others), and recycled plots ("The Savage Curtain," in which aliens set up a showdown between "good" and "evil," was too similar to "Arena"; "Whom Gods Destroy," in which a single individual "takes over" an insane asylum, was too similar to "Dagger of the Mind").

Reasons? Multiple, with the reasons/speculations offered by Therin, Anji, Navigator, and--in your last paragraph--yourself all plausible to me.

As for my view, I like to look at TOS as a whole--the characters and many of the plots were on a par with good literature, Gene Roddenberry's view that humanity would "live long and prosper" was uplifting, and the show was just plain fun to watch. IMO, there are a few shows that compare with TOS (eg, the Twilight Zone, maybe Lost--I'm still deciding), but there is no show that I would consider better than TOS. Period.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season 3?

I'm sorry but our answer is in another castle

 

[Christopher]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

Well, to prove that this is a pattern distinct to the third season, it would be necessary to compare it to Kirk's "capture rate" in the first two seasons and demonstrate a statistically significant increase. Let's take a look:

Season 1:
"What Are Little Girls Made Of?": Kirk, Chapel held captive on Exo III.
"Dagger of the Mind": Kirk, Noel held captive on Tantalus Colony.
"Miri": Kirk trapped on Chia Earth by disease, then kidnapped by Onlies.
"The Squire of Gothos": Kirk, others imprisoned by Trelane, then Kirk abducted separately.
"Arena": Kirk abducted to Metron asteroid, forced to fight Gorn.
"Tomorrow is Yesterday": Kirk imprisoned by US Air Force.
"The Return of the Archons": Kirk, landing party imprisoned by Landru.
"A Taste of Armageddon": Kirk, landing party imprisoned (briefly) by Eminians.
"Errand of Mercy": Kirk, Spock trapped on Organia by Klingon occupation.
"The City on the Edge of Forever": Kirk, landing party trapped on Guardian planet by erasure of timeline (okay, borderline case).

Season 2:
"Catspaw": Kirk, landing party held captive by Sylvia & Korob.
"Metamorphosis": Kirk, Spock, McCoy abducted and held by Companion.
"Friday's Child": Kirk, Spock, McCoy detained, then pursued by Capellans.
"Who Mourns for Adonais?": Kirk, landing party held captive by Apollo.
"The Doomsday Machine": Kirk, others stuck on Constellation.
"The Apple": Kirk, others stuck on planet by Vaal's interference with Enterprise.
"Mirror, Mirror": Kirk, others trapped in parallel timeline.
"I, Mudd": Kirk, others held captive by androids.
"Bread and Circuses": Kirk, others held captive by Romans.
"A Private Little War": Kirk injured, forced to stay on planet.
"The Gamesters of Triskelion": Kirk, others abducted to gladiator planet.
"A Piece of the Action": Kirk, others abducted repeatedly.
"By Any Other Name": Kirk, entire crew held hostage by Kelvans.
"Return to Tomorrow": Kirk's consciousness imprisoned in a crystal ball.
"Patterns of Force": Kirk, Spock imprisoned by Space Nazis.
"The Omega Glory": Kirk, Spock imprisoned by Space Commies.

If anything, season 2 went way more overboard on captured/trapped storylines than season 3 did. Although, granted, S3 had more cases where it was Kirk alone, but I chalk that up to a lower budget reducing the number of characters per episode, and to the growing focus on the big three: you couldn't have Scotty being the hero and saving Kirk and Spock, it had to be Spock being the hero and saving Kirk, or vice-versa.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

Gene Roddenberry purchased the scripts for the third season, not Fred Freiberger. And I thought his work on Space: 1999 was an improvement over the first season.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

Gene Roddenberry purchased the scripts for the third season, not Fred Freiberger.

Whatever gave you that idea? It's common knowledge that Roddenberry stepped back from the producer role when NBC moved the show to an undesirable time slot for the third season, that Freiberger became the showrunner.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

Gene Roddenberry purchased the scripts for the third season, not Fred Freiberger.

Some scripts were already on hand, pitches held over from Season Two (and Season One) - for example, Freiberger disliked inheriting "Spock's Brain" and refused to allow it to be played as a comedy, as first envisaged, but I'm sure the usual pitch/write/edit/film process occurred throughout Season Three. "Joanna" was also on hand, but Frieberger didn't want Kirk falling for the daughter of "a contemporary", ie. McCoy, and the script turned into "The Way to Eden".

David Gerrold's two animated scripts had rejected by Frieberger during Season Three, not Roddenberry. Also, IIRC, Alan Dean Foster's Kumara-the-Klingon two-parter was commissioned by Frieberger for a possible Season Four, but eventually used by ADF in the final two-thirds of his book "Star Trek Log Seven".

Roddenberry was given a courtesy read-through of Season Three scripts, and probably sent many memos, but otherwise he was off working on other projects.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season 3?

I'm sorry but our answer is in another castle

Damn, beat me to it.

 

[Saga]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season 3?

I'm sorry but our answer is in another castle

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

@Therin-- "Spock's Brain" wasn't a comedy?!

 

[plynch]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

Well, to prove that this is a pattern distinct to the third season, it would be necessary to compare it to Kirk's "capture rate" in the first two seasons and demonstrate a statistically significant increase. Let's take a look:

I absolutely knew you were going to do this for us, so I didn't even start reviewing eps in my head.

Too many laning party on the X planet gets in danger plots in S2 - I say that too often; perhaps I should get off the hobby horse.

Still, "Kirk-only in danger" is increased in S3. The question why KIRK becomes Peach is an interesting one. I hadn't noticed it before. I still think years on this board have led me to prefer S3 to S2. Though reading through Trek 365 has led me to remember the many S2 eps that weren't so mundane.

 

[Josie]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

I haven't seen season 3 yet, I think I got a third of the way through last time I watched before I had to stop, but why would Shatner allow this to happen? By all accounts he had an ego forming at the end of season 1 and some people seem to think he played Kirk as a hero, so how is being rescued (like a girl in 60s era) fit with the hero Kirk perception and Shatner's ego?

I realise he wanted more screen time, but it sounds like the screen time made his character weaker and less of a hero. Would it have not been better to have a subsidiary cast member in which Kirk could rescue?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

I haven't seen season 3 yet, I think I got a third of the way through last time I watched before I had to stop, but why would Shatner allow this to happen? By all accounts he had an ego forming at the end of season 1 and some people seem to think he played Kirk as a hero, so how is being rescued (like a girl in 60s era) fit with the hero Kirk perception and Shatner's ego?

But is that what really happened? Let's look at it case by case:

The Tholian Web: Kirk gets trapped between dimensions

Okay, there he was passive and needed to be rescued, and was absent for much of the story. On the other hand, Shatner got to deliver that awesome "Kirk's last orders" speech.

Paradise Syndrome: Kirk has amnesia and is cut off from the ship

But is still heavily featured in most of the episode, gets to stretch his acting muscles by playing a different version of Kirk, and does all sorts of hero stuff like saving a drowned boy, bringing white man's civilization to the natives, and beating up the jerk ex-boyfriend.

Wink of an Eye: Kirk gets caught by accelerated aliens

But is still the focus character in most of the episode, takes action to inform his crew of the peril, and gets to implicitly sleep with the hot babe.

Spectre of the Gun: Kirk and others get caught in fantasy world

But Kirk is still the focus character -- the illusion is drawn from his heritage -- and he gets to be all commanding and brawl with the Earps.

Whom Gods Destroy: Kirk and the others are captured and held in insane asylum by crazy Captain Dude

But Shatner gets extra screen time because he gets to play Garth as well as Kirk, and he even gets to be on screen twice at the same time. Plus he gets to make time with Batgirl.

Plato's Stepchildren: Kirk and the others are trapped by the Platonians

Again, no shortage of screen time for Shatner, and Kirk is the main force behind their liberation.

Cloud Minders: Kirk is kidnapped and trapped in the mine
Mark of Gideon: Gideon people hold Kirk to use his blood so they can die

Again, plenty of screen time and action (of one sort or another) for Kirk.

All Our Yesterdays: Trapped on Sarpeidon, in the 19th century era, 19th century era prison, and the library

But Kirk manages to arrange his own escape and rescue Spock and McCoy.

Tournabout Intruder: Trapped in a sick woman's body

No shortage of screen time, and another chance for Shatner to play a different character and show his stuff as an actor.


It's true that in a lot of those cases, Spock was the one who came up with the ultimate solution, but that doesn't mean Kirk was passive. When Spock's popularity began to eclipse Kirk and Shatner and Roddenberry were concerned about Kirk being overshadowed, the solution Roddenberry reached (following advice from Isaac Asimov) was to make Kirk and Spock a team; usually it was both of them working together who saved the day. And at the very least, if Kirk is in trouble and needs Spock to find a way to save him, Kirk is still the audience's focus, the one whose situation is driving the story. And even if it's Spock who saves him in the end, he's usually not passive, usually spending the entire episode confronting his captors or trying to solve his dilemma, with interludes to dally with space babes. Not a bad gig for a leading man, if you can get it.

 

[plynch]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

I'm not sure William Shatner necessarily sees the big picture vis his character being in istress. They're working actors cranking out an ep. a week. They're not producer/story editor seeing a pile of scripts to be shot for the upcoming whole season.

Maybe he didn't even really notice. There have been things in my career where you can look back an see the pattern/trend, whatever, but when you're in the thick of it, it's the tyranny of the urgent, seeing trees and not the forest.

OTOH, maybe he was comlplicit in this dastardly trend to make the star of the series be featured in more episodes.

If a leading man is getting more screen time, does he really care about a character that noone will ever really see again after 1969, except for a couple of rounds of re-runs?

[a la the Shat:]Be . . . well.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

I'm not sure William Shatner necessarily sees the big picture vis his character being in istress. They're working actors cranking out an ep. a week. They're not producer/story editor seeing a pile of scripts to be shot for the upcoming whole season.

Maybe he didn't even really notice. There have been things in my career where you can look back an see the pattern/trend, whatever, but when you're in the thick of it, it's the tyranny of the urgent, seeing trees and not the forest.

Excellent point. Even for the production staff, they're in the trenches, racing to keep up with deadlines and cope with problems as they arise. It's kind of like trying to build a car while it's careering downhill. Not a lot of opportunity to pause and reflect, you've just got to keep the thing moving forward, one crisis at a time.

 

[Gary7]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

^ this.

They were under a lot of pressure with a tight schedule and a scarcity of decent scripts. Also, in those days, "extreme tension" was the attention getter. Compare TOS to TNG and you'll see a lot more sedate episodes in TNG, and certainly a lot less "captured" situations.

I've no doubt that if things had progressed to a 4th season, you would have had more talented writers coming on board (a series going beyond a 3rd season is usually a very good sign, unless the writing is already on the wall, e.g. ENT). I think we would have seen some TNG like episodes by then.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Anyone Know Why Kirk suddenly turned into Princess Peach in Season

^ this.

They were under a lot of pressure with a tight schedule and a scarcity of decent scripts. Also, in those days, "extreme tension" was the attention getter. Compare TOS to TNG and you'll see a lot more sedate episodes in TNG, and certainly a lot less "captured" situations.

I've no doubt that if things had progressed to a 4th season, you would have had more talented writers coming on board (a series going beyond a 3rd season is usually a very good sign, unless the writing is already on the wall, e.g. ENT). I think we would have seen some TNG like episodes by then.

I don't see why the episodes would be more TNG like. TOS was a product of the 1960s and would continue to be so in a fourth season.