Anyone here who likes Neelix?

[somebuddyX]

I thought the doctor was pretty good and i like how he changed over the years from how he first began. i think some of the best comedy bits in the first year was him learning all kinds of new things and being treated like garbage at first and i liked seeing him grow. latent image and living witness are two of my favourite episodes because of picardo's performance.

 

[Sybok Was Wrong]

I have a problem with Neelix always calling Tuvok "Mr.Vulcan".

Not the dignity of his name, or rank, like Neelix does with others. But he calls him what he is, not who he is. Yes, Vulcans are fictional, but what is the difference between Neelix calling Tuvok "Mr.Vulcan" or Neelix calling Chakotay "Mr.Indian"? None, really.

Perhaps at the time the writers saw "Mr.Vulcan" in the same vein as Torres calling Kim "Starfleet". But time has exposed Neelixs name calling as racist.

Star Trek calls itself progressive but it ultimately is a product of its time. Like its seismic. And in the case of Neelix- racism.

Neelix is a bad morale officer, gossipy, insecure, jealous & racist. Quite a character.

 

[Triskelion]

^ I felt the same way about "Mr Vulcan" until I rewatched the first time Neelix met Tuvok, in "Caretaker". He simply misunderstood Tuvok's name as "Vulcan".

NEELIX: Astonishing! You Federations are obviously an advanced culture.
TUVOK: The Federation is made up of many cultures. I am Vulcan.
NEELIX: Neelix. Good to meet you!
(Neelix gives Tuvok a bear hug.)

After that, I would attribute the appellation to a term of endearment more than a distancing perjorative.

It was a nickname that stuck. Neelix had nothing but respect for Tuvok, but would try to goad emotional responses from him, so knowing that a nickname was something a Vulcan would certainly not indulge in, he persisted. It was a playful irreverence for dignity that Neelix was actually trying to get Tuvok to at least try. Neelix would have loved Tuvok to refer to him as "Mr Talaxian." Anything to break through that wall of decorum.

I feel like this underpinned their relationship through the entire series, culminating in Tuvok's ultimate minimal emotional display in "Homestead." Neelix and Tuvok continually challenged each others' natures but they never really adopted the others willingly - until that moment.

Friendship. Not based on superficial words, but something deeper and more authentic; an unspoken symbiosis, with echoes of Bones & Spock, that was revealed in episodes like "Rise", "Riddles" and "Tuvix."

A spirit of friendship.


Now here's a question: How do you show respect for someone interested in rigorous mental and emotional discipline? By placating them with soft language? Or by challenging their emotional responses at every turn?

Neelix was as much a teacher to Tuvok as Tuvok was Neelix's superior officer.

 

[stardream]

I might be all alone but I much preferred the episodes/scenes of Tuvok and Paris to that of Tuvok and Neelix. No hate...just personal preference.

 

[bbailey861]

I like Neelix as well. Yup, he certainly was annoying at times, but who the hell isn't? Overall, though, there is a lot more good than bad. Ethan Phillips did a great job of bringing Neelix to life.

 

[Drone]

Perhaps at the time the writers saw "Mr.Vulcan" in the same vein as Torres calling Kim "Starfleet". But time has exposed Neelixs name calling as racist.

How? By what measure do you think people are more "enlightened", as seems to be your take on this specific kind of characterization? The movement to dispatch nearly all Native American appellations from athletic teams? The apparent "revelation" that the core of American law enforcement is violently skewed against minorities?

I don't think that any perceived change in the current zeitgeist has anything to do with how Neelix views and treats Tuvok. I agree with ATOMICROAR. He wants to be part of Tuvok's world, especially after the time passed that he could impart any knowledge on Voyager's travels in the quadrant. He fervently wants Tuvok to consider him as someone he can trust and rely on, even though he knows they can't be friends as such. This supposed "epithet" seems to me as well to be an addendum to Nelix's efforts in this regard and the use of the term is his way of expressing himself to Tuvok in a different way than anyone else does, while knowing that however grudgingly Tuvok values him, his grasp of Nelix's character means that he is aware that the name is harmless, if annoying. I don't believe for a minute that Tuvok finds Neelix to be a malicious person who would truly harbor feelings of animosity or hatred.

As for the general proposition, I think that the OP's remarks very closely mirror my evaluation of the character. I've always found the disparaging comparison to a character from another universe and the categorical putdowns simply because of the outward expressiveness that Neelix sometimes displays, to be facile and bereft of any serious consideration. His self-appointed role as morale officer was actually quite apt and self-aware, not just an attempt at obsequious ingratiation. Neelix was really quite a wise and perceptive person who had an acute ability to sense other's problems and offer sage advice.

As has been said, his life experiences haunted him in a number of ways when he first encountered Voyager. Even before then he desired change in his life as demonstrated by his pursuit of Kes. He was putting himself out on the line by doing so. While that relationship's nature can be endlessly debated as to what the show runners intended, I think that Neeelix essentially saw Kes as a romantic mate not a prized possession to be harbored. That his behavior in Season 1 often displayed the latter was a result of his longstanding self-doubt of positive qualities that would allow any possible partner to unconditionally accept and respect him. For a time, this meant that any attention given Kes served to amplify this negativity and reflexively he could unequivocally justify it by taking the role of a protector and not address it in a confident and unafraid position of an equal. As noxious as this behavior came across, I think it was very consistent with the character as we first came to know him.

His evolving self-evaluation and revelatory experiences signaled a real growth in character or perhaps the capability to allow himself to show others what was always there. It is unfortunate that we were not allowed to view more of this, but even well before the end of his stay on Voyager, he was undoubtedly seen by his shipmates as an invaluable presence and a true member of the "family". I still find his sendoff one of the more moving immediate scenes of the series, not just because of Tuvok's ultimate display of respect and care, but because of the impressive seeming number of the crew that saw it as right and just to say goodbye with perhaps the ultimate salute.

 

[Makarov]

I like Neelix and I think it comes down to the actor being really good in the role. He could pull off the dramatic stuff with as well as the comedy. When I think of Voyager Neelix comes to mind more than Seven of Nine does actually. His scenes with Tuvok are hilarious. And he was a much better bartender type of character than Guinan in my opinion.

 

[Phoenix Eterna]

My now ex boyfriend introduced me to STV. And I fell in love with Neelix quickly, and he is my most favourite character of all.

Honestly, it's his character and personality, and with all the crap I am going through emotionally and mentally in my life, if I met either Ethan Phillips or especially him dressed as Neelix..it may sound stupid, but it would help me a lot.

Neelix is a really great character and I think people had a hard time seeing beyond what he was maybe meant to be, the comic relief.
He's a very warm and caring individual...

And he is the embodiment of all the things I wish I could find in a partner irl...truly.
Kes was lucky to have him, and it's what she did to him that ultimately made me despise her. (Mind you, I adored Kes from the get go, and it's -very- hard for me to like female characters at all, and not even like as much as I adored Kes in the beginning)
The changes they made to her (hair, outfit) started it, but what she did to Neelix topped it off.

I guess it hits deep with me, because my then boyfriend, now ex, did that to me a lot and treated me like that...

Neelix cared for and loved Kes the same way I loved my ex..and look how he got treated?

So yeah. That's not the only reason I like him..

I adore him, for the amazing character that he is.

 

[Phoenix Eterna]

I have a problem with Neelix always calling Tuvok "Mr.Vulcan".

Not the dignity of his name, or rank, like Neelix does with others. But he calls him what he is, not who he is. Yes, Vulcans are fictional, but what is the difference between Neelix calling Tuvok "Mr.Vulcan" or Neelix calling Chakotay "Mr.Indian"? None, really.

Perhaps at the time the writers saw "Mr.Vulcan" in the same vein as Torres calling Kim "Starfleet". But time has exposed Neelixs name calling as racist.

Star Trek calls itself progressive but it ultimately is a product of its time. Like its seismic. And in the case of Neelix- racism.

Neelix is a bad morale officer, gossipy, insecure, jealous & racist. Quite a character.

"The Federation is made up of many cultures. I, am Vulcan" - Tuvok

*putting his hands on his chest* "Neelix"

Do understand, that he probably misunderstood "Vulcan" as Tuvok's name, not his race. And thus "Mr. Vulcan" is probably just a thing. As he probably did not know Tuvok's actual last name either, and he highly admired and respected him..perhaps that was his way of admiring respect for him. Who knows..

Thinking it was done out of derogatory intent, no offense, is absurd.

 

[Drone]

My now ex boyfriend introduced me to STV. And I fell in love with Neelix quickly, and he is my most favourite character of all.

Honestly, it's his character and personality, and with all the crap I am going through emotionally and mentally in my life, if I met either Ethan Phillips or especially him dressed as Neelix..it may sound stupid, but it would help me a lot.

Neelix is a really great character and I think people had a hard time seeing beyond what he was maybe meant to be, the comic relief.
He's a very warm and caring individual...

And he is the embodiment of all the things I wish I could find in a partner irl...truly.
Kes was lucky to have him, and it's what she did to him that ultimately made me despise her. (Mind you, I adored Kes from the get go, and it's -very- hard for me to like female characters at all, and not even like as much as I adored Kes in the beginning)
The changes they made to her (hair, outfit) started it, but what she did to Neelix topped it off.

I guess it hits deep with me, because my then boyfriend, now ex, did that to me a lot and treated me like that...

Neelix cared for and loved Kes the same way I loved my ex..and look how he got treated?

So yeah. That's not the only reason I like him..

I adore him, for the amazing character that he is.[/QUOTE


I agree with you about Neelix (see above) and I don't mean to diminish a painful personal experience you had to endure, but I really can't see the validity in an argument the makes the case that Kes was in any way cruel, unfeeling, or dismissive of Neelix.

She put up with his jealousy period in Season 1, which although she may not have known the exact cause, there was probably a sense she had that it was formed by aspects of his past that she didn't directly know about. She was supportive of his endeavors that helped to enhance his role on Voyager. Oh, and she did contribute a rather important body part which precluded his being kept alive by the Doctor's wizardry, but facing however much longer he would stay so, being totally immobile.

I think Kes truly had strong romantic feelings for Neelix. But while she was endowed with a great innate wisdom, she was emotionally naïve when their relationship was formed. I don't see anything malicious or cruel in her coming to realize over time that her needs and desires had changed and acting on that truth, even if that happened to be crystallized by contact with an evil alien dictator.

At its base, however, as has been commonly remarked upon, the problem(s) with the relationship as perceived by many people, is that the show runners didn't seem to have any clarity of vision about what it was fundamentally about and certainly seemingly some kind of formulation as to how it might evolve.

 

[Drone]

11 Ignore, just an inadvertent slip on the keyboard.

 

[Triskelion]

11 Ignore, just an inadvertent slip on the keyboard.

Now see here, just what do you think you are trying to get away with?

That post could have gone to yet another informative thread about Neelix. A debate about his hairstyle. His taste in fashion. His irrepressible charm or the convenient way Kes forgot that without him, she was dead - deader than Tuvok's love life - dead.

Now we'll never know. So again, I ask you sir!

 

[Drone]

Many apologies sahib, as this humble supplicant bows and scrapes his way out of your presence. By the way, would you care for a date?

Oops, I guess I've needlessly taken up space from attending to Neelix again. Well, for what it's worth, if you look at my previous posts in this thread, I hope you can be reconciled that I actually think quite highly of the old boy.

 

[Scotchy]

Nope. He coughed up hairballs and scratched up sickbay.

 

[Tracy Trek]

I liked Neelix as well. I actually found the Doctor more annoying.

 

[Random_Spock]

I liked Neelix as well. I actually found the Doctor more annoying.

I liked Neelix too. Same here. I liked him and disliked him equally.

 

[Paradise City]

Ethan Philips is a strong actor and some Neelix episodes are well done.

Overall, I don't like it though when a given series includes a token "court jester" where he gets lumbered with the kind of dialogue when he has to run through which 'intruder alert sounds the best' or whatever that was.

The idea of Tuvok and Neelix being an odd couple eventually culminating into a confrontation and something of an understanding of each other is good although some scenes where Neelix arrives to annoy Tuvok seem quite contrived.

Picardo sometimes overplays the doctor and goes OTT on occasion. When that happens, it's liking watching a sketch.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I didn't care for there being "more of the same," when it came to all these rubberheaded aliens in the Delta Quadrant ... including the Talaxians. I'm not really sure where CGI was in the mid-nineties, but maybe a mixture of latex and CGI enhanced features could've been the norm. And this should've applied to Neelix' design and execution.

I liked that Neelix had value for knowing that area of space and that he had to earn his keep, otherwise, trying to find something to gravitate towards. He wasn't even needed in the kitchen, really. It was realistic, in a way and I like that part about him, that finding his way didn't happen overnight, or come naturally.

But his jealousy over Kes was a bit much. His insecurities, in general were kind of hard to take, at times. And part of that, I feel, was the fact that it was Ethan Phillips under all of that plastic. He's just not Leading Man material, and in that sense, is very limited in range. The makeup made Ethan's performance much more interesting and probably ensured his job, anyway.

Had Neelix been Human in appearance, with a funny nose, his shortcomings might've gone over better. But he looks so curious, that his character traits seemed contrary to himself. He looked too animalistic to be such a creampuff hanger-on in desperate need of acceptance. The juxtaposition of the two just didn't work for me.

 

[HIjol]

I met Ethan Philips at a Con in the Chicago area, years ago, and he was nice and friendly and very funny...I liked him very much. Not so much with Neelix, but he did a good job with what he was given, IMHO.

 

[KimMH]

He grew on me, and loathe as I am to admit it, he got a lot more interesting after Kes' departure. I especially love encountering him in the Voy relaunch novels - it's like seeing an old friend again.