Anyone here who likes Neelix?
- Thread starter Lynx
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Least favorite character in all of Star Trek. He's the Jar Jar of ST.
why?
why?
Well, in all serious. I think Jar Jar gets a bad rap. Star Wars fans (you know, the ones who grew up with SW) went to Phantom Menace and somehow forgot that it was originally a kids favorite. Why? Because they grew up, and then they wanted a SW for grownups. They didn't get it, and poor Jar Jar got the blame. I feel like he needs someone to stand up for him.
I, II, & III had plenty of characters to love, which means plenty of diversity to go around. Jar Jar was meant for the newest fans to enjoy, and IMHO older fans (myself included) should respect that.
Don't get me wrong, he's not my favorite (by any stretch). But I think he was likable, fun, and still managed to play a pivotal role in the plot. And I can appreciate that.
The fact that Jar-Jar is pretty much the only character in TPM to get any real development doesn't mean that his screechy voice and cloying grammar aren't completely frickin' awful.
Say what you like about Neelix's enthusiasm, he's got a pleasant voice and is well-spoken.
Say what you like about Neelix's enthusiasm, he's got a pleasant voice and is well-spoken.
Don't forget... a great smile and a contagious laugh!
I literally cried when he left Voyager.
I'm not sure i can say I like him as a character, period.
There's simply too much difference between, say, S1 Neelix and S7 Neelix. S1 Neelix is annoying as hell, a selfish lonely schemer riddled with jealousy, but eventually, he develops into a rather likeable character that can in some ways even be considered the social heart of the ship. Though even in S7 I don't always like the way Neelix was used for comic relief or how they tried to "milk" Neelix being at odds with Tuvok. I think more of his "serious" side could have been shown over the years... some more episodes like "Jetrel", or "Fair Trade".
But I do appreciate the arc of how he was allowed to stay aboard in S1, even as the unlikeable person he was back then, and how Voyager "gave him back" to the world 7 years later as a very different, much nicer person. And I'm not even sure that was intentional.
There's simply too much difference between, say, S1 Neelix and S7 Neelix. S1 Neelix is annoying as hell, a selfish lonely schemer riddled with jealousy, but eventually, he develops into a rather likeable character that can in some ways even be considered the social heart of the ship. Though even in S7 I don't always like the way Neelix was used for comic relief or how they tried to "milk" Neelix being at odds with Tuvok. I think more of his "serious" side could have been shown over the years... some more episodes like "Jetrel", or "Fair Trade".
But I do appreciate the arc of how he was allowed to stay aboard in S1, even as the unlikeable person he was back then, and how Voyager "gave him back" to the world 7 years later as a very different, much nicer person. And I'm not even sure that was intentional.
I'm a big fan of Neelix, so of course I like him. He's definitely one of my favorite Voyager characters, that's for sure.
Ethan Phillips recounted in an article how neither he nor the writers really knew Neelix's story at the beginning of the series. (Indeed, this probably holds true for most of the characters, since much of the series was scripted on the fly). With no clear path, Phillips offered the writers some possibilities for the character; and says they instead went another way, which he was satisfied with. His attitude was professional and adaptable, and he showed up and went to work. I guess they followed that old Talaxian expression and took the 3rd path.
I'd be interested to know what ideas he had for the character. Also noteworthy, Phillips didn't know the extent of his and Kes' relationship. I guess it's not a foregone conclusion they were officially a couple. They even filmed a breakup scene for closure that took place on the ship, but didn't use it. Phillips supposed the writers didn't value that particular arc as much as others.
As a fan though, I think that friendship deserved a bit more insight in the background, if not center stage. As for Neelix's jealousy - he wasn't wrong. Those flirtations were really happening. What about that? What if Neelix had been the one getting freebie sweetie piloting lessons on the holodeck with some smitten hottie, or getting a fancy watch for his birthday from said hottie, say, during Kes' elogium? She wouldn't have a grievance or concern? Please.
I'd be interested to know what ideas he had for the character. Also noteworthy, Phillips didn't know the extent of his and Kes' relationship. I guess it's not a foregone conclusion they were officially a couple. They even filmed a breakup scene for closure that took place on the ship, but didn't use it. Phillips supposed the writers didn't value that particular arc as much as others.
As a fan though, I think that friendship deserved a bit more insight in the background, if not center stage. As for Neelix's jealousy - he wasn't wrong. Those flirtations were really happening. What about that? What if Neelix had been the one getting freebie sweetie piloting lessons on the holodeck with some smitten hottie, or getting a fancy watch for his birthday from said hottie, say, during Kes' elogium? She wouldn't have a grievance or concern? Please.
I thought he was a different kind of character and was better when Kes left.
I like all the Star Trek characters and it wasn't until I came to the internet that I even considered the possibility that people wouldn't like them. I'm pretty easy going though and I'm the sort of guy who doesn't really mind Jar Jar Binks though. I really enjoyed the stuff Ethan Phillips did in Jetrel and Mortal Coil, the latter probably one of my favourite Voyager episodes altogether. I also just love his makeup.
At times, in ST Fandom, there seems to be a propensity to not tolerate quirky or flawed characters. They seem to value authoritarian take-charge types to the detriment of secondary characters. Neelix certainly had flaws but those flaws added some color to the cast and I think he worked well in the role. Now, of course a show centered around a Neelix or secondary character wouldn't fair well, but the addition of such characters adds much to storylines.
The Doctor was quirky and flawed but fans seemed to like him.
Well, I thought Neelix was ok as a character, but seemed underutilized.
They should have fleshed him out more.
Also, he showed a great deal of interest in being more useful to the ship, so I found Tuvok's constant dismissal for security inclusion annoying (I mean, he served in a war against the Hakonians, so he does have 'some' experience in that department).
So, him being a morale officer was a good idea, though the crew could have gone to him on a more regular basis during their meals, etc. (sort of making the 'counselling sessions' more natural as opposed to 'organized' in an office).
Plus, in the first 2 years, he could have directed the crew's efforts into finding solar systems rich in raw materials - that's what we should have seen, the crew actively working towards self-sustainability and Neelix's knowledge of the initial area of the DQ as a good starting point.
They should have fleshed him out more.
Also, he showed a great deal of interest in being more useful to the ship, so I found Tuvok's constant dismissal for security inclusion annoying (I mean, he served in a war against the Hakonians, so he does have 'some' experience in that department).
So, him being a morale officer was a good idea, though the crew could have gone to him on a more regular basis during their meals, etc. (sort of making the 'counselling sessions' more natural as opposed to 'organized' in an office).
Plus, in the first 2 years, he could have directed the crew's efforts into finding solar systems rich in raw materials - that's what we should have seen, the crew actively working towards self-sustainability and Neelix's knowledge of the initial area of the DQ as a good starting point.
Good points. Personally I think they were too quick to attribute personification to a computer program. They did it in the holodeck all the time, too. If that's the case, wouldn't the Federation have a moral obligation to manufacture "free sentient beings" en masse?
The EMH was a computer program that experienced the world and learned - but everything he was was in fact a simulated response. He did not "feel", he processed feeling language - this is a big problem I have with this character. The, um, lack of a neurophysical body in which to place these feelings into biological context. He was a simulation of human responses; not able to experience human responses in his body. He was more dimmer switch than human.
I know Seven made a rebuttal of this argument by comparing him to Borg - but Borg systems do not function without their biological bodies. The Borg are biological first. The technology was enhancement. It's a fantastic leap from saying a Borg cortical node is not unlike a replicator to saying the cortical node is sentient and autonomous. Even if it's programmed to say "Cogito ergo sum." Yeah, that goes for Moriarty too!
Now, if they were just sentient programs, let them be that. Don't let's pretend they are human beings with like physiological responses.
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