Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

[Knight Templar]

I remember when "Generations" came out, reviewers praised the saucer crash as being one of the shows great moments and a special effects triumph.

I was rewatching it the other day and seeing it now it seems horrendously long and tedious. A lot like the infamous "disaster" flicks from the 1970s that dwells forever on things breaking, people falling, and sparks flying.

Anyone else feelt this way?

 

[wahwahkits]

No I think it was very well done. I think they spent just the right time on it, if they'd spent just a tiny amount of time on it I think it would have dis-respected what was a beautiful ship and a very important piece of the TV series.

 

[Andymator]

Nah, I thought it was great!

 

[FalTorPan]

I think it was well done. It was probably difficult to "sell" the effect, since the saucer in sunlight looks much different than it does in space, and the saucer is so enormous that there's no easy way to convey its size relative to the landscape. (The windows don't do it for me, since most are elongated due to the slope of the saucer's top and bottom.)

 

[Galileo7]

I did not want to see the 1701-D destroyed, but the 'saucer crash' was done well.

 

[jayrath]

I think it was the best possible job, pre-CGI. And I hate CGI.

 

[R. Star]

Three things come to mind about this scene.

1) Troi actively had to aim the saucer section toward the planet if the force of the drive section's explosion is what pushes them into the atmosphere. Space is big and she could have gone any other direction.

2) The windows break. These things are stated to be made of transparent aluminium and are supposed to stand up against the rigors of space travel and combat. But they break when the ship crashes? Lack of thinking things through.

3) The evacuation. Do they go through that dramatic sequence every time they seperate? I thought they whole point of the saucer seperation was to keep the families out of harm's way. Why the hell are the families even IN the drive section?

These are all just writing faults more than anything else. That was really the problem with Generations as a whole. Poor writing. The effects, while not terribly inspiring, where alright.

 

[sonak]

I think it was awesome. One of the coolest parts of the movie.

 

[Marc]

Three things come to mind about this scene.

1) Troi actively had to aim the saucer section toward the planet if the force of the drive section's explosion is what pushes them into the atmosphere. Space is big and she could have gone any other direction.

little bit of nudge, systems not responding and suddenly you're heading dirtside.

2) The windows break. These things are stated to be made of transparent aluminium and are supposed to stand up against the rigors of space travel and combat. But they break when the ship crashes? Lack of thinking things through.

Not really - the spaceframe is designed for a zero-g environment and is re-enforced by SIF and aided by interial dampners. It's on a planet, experiencing gravity for the first time, SIF failing and things aren't going to stand up too well.

3) The evacuation. Do they go through that dramatic sequence every time they seperate? I thought they whole point of the saucer seperation was to keep the families out of harm's way. Why the hell are the families even IN the drive section?

it keeps them safe after the saucer has seperated from the stardrive. Gotta get them first. Go back to through the eps where saucer seperates (EaF, BOBW, Arsenal of Fredom) and they usually had ot shift people around. Only in this instance they had to evacuate everyone to the saucer where as normally there would have those who remaind behind (e.g engineering personel).

These are all just writing faults more than anything else. That was really the problem with Generations as a whole. Poor writing. The effects, while not terribly inspiring, where alright.

sorry - while there was sloppy writing, I think your points are more nitpicking/wrong than writting.

 

[R. Star]

^
In response:

1) Space is three dimensional. The ONLY way the explosion of the drive section could knock the saucer into the planet's atmosphere is if it was positioned between the drive and the planet. The drive section was parallel to the planet when they started the evacuation. So basically Troi had to specifically turn the ship TOWARD the planet. That's not just a "nudge" in the wrong direction.

2) Yes, really. Those windows are expected to survive weapon blasts, crashes and other such trauma in space. Then they break when there's a crash scene? There's no reason for that but lack of continuity and that someone on the set thought it would be "cool."

3) Yes, the did have to evacuate the crew. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the civilians. There were tons of them being moved in that scene, especially that little dramatic scene of the girl dropping her bear. The whole point of a separable ship is to keep the civilians safe in crisis situations. That means they should all be in the saucer. But evacuating the crew wouldn't be "dramatic" so yeah.

Certainly these aren't the three biggest flaws in the movie, but they are relevant to this scene which is what the thread is about. Even something simple as this scene they made obvious mistakes.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Looking back on it now, the actual crash does look pretty dated. But it is still well done, given when it was made, etc.

One thing about the evacuation that has always puzzled me: why was Sickbay evacuated?

Sickbay was on deck twelve of the Saucer Section, close to the centre of the deck to afford it as much protection as possible. No medical facility was ever established as being in the Drive Section, though it would make sense when the ship was separated, so as to treat casualties during a combat situation--but why would Beverly be there instead of the main facility?

 

[Dream]

So basically Troi had to specifically turn the ship TOWARD the planet. That's not just a "nudge" in the wrong direction.

That scene always bugged me. Why did Riker ask Troi and not a nameless redshirt to take the helm? Was this a lame women are bad drivers joke?

They did it again for Nemesis too!

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I adore the saucer crash. It actually looks like a horrible terrifying crash from the inside rather than just people throwing themselves about the bridge.

 

[R. Star]

So basically Troi had to specifically turn the ship TOWARD the planet. That's not just a "nudge" in the wrong direction.

That scene always bugged me. Why did Riker ask Troi and not a nameless redshirt to take the helm? Was this a lame women are bad drivers joke?

They did it again for Nemesis too!

Yeah, who would think your therapist would make a good pilot? That really was Riker's poor call there. Though in Nemesis you could argue that Picard had already decided to ram Shinzon's ship when he told Troi to take the helm. Who would be better to crash the ship?

 

[Tiberius]

1) Space is three dimensional. The ONLY way the explosion of the drive section could knock the saucer into the planet's atmosphere is if it was positioned between the drive and the planet. The drive section was parallel to the planet when they started the evacuation. So basically Troi had to specifically turn the ship TOWARD the planet. That's not just a "nudge" in the wrong direction.

Not really. She would have tried to get the saucer out away from everything as quickly as possible, but once the explosion happened, the saucer could have been caught in the planet's gravity. It's not like the planet doesn't pull on you if you are in orbit...

2) Yes, really. Those windows are expected to survive weapon blasts, crashes and other such trauma in space. Then they break when there's a crash scene? There's no reason for that but lack of continuity and that someone on the set thought it would be "cool."

Maybe, but bear in mind that the hull of the saucer was taking the weight of the entire saucer. I don't think there's any part where the saucer had needed to take stresses like that before. And metal will shatter if you stress it the right way.

3) Yes, the did have to evacuate the crew. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the civilians. There were tons of them being moved in that scene, especially that little dramatic scene of the girl dropping her bear. The whole point of a separable ship is to keep the civilians safe in crisis situations. That means they should all be in the saucer. But evacuating the crew wouldn't be "dramatic" so yeah.

Well, they might have been in a classroom in the neck or something...

 

[Tiberius]

Looking back on it now, the actual crash does look pretty dated. But it is still well done, given when it was made, etc.

One thing about the evacuation that has always puzzled me: why was Sickbay evacuated?

Sickbay was on deck twelve of the Saucer Section, close to the centre of the deck to afford it as much protection as possible. No medical facility was ever established as being in the Drive Section, though it would make sense when the ship was separated, so as to treat casualties during a combat situation--but why would Beverly be there instead of the main facility?

The sickbay in the saucer isn't the only sickbay on the ship. In fact, given that the stardrive is the bit that is more likely to go into battle, it would make sense it has medical facilities there too. You wouldn't want your crew to die just because the saucer took the hospital when it scampered off.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Looking back on it now, the actual crash does look pretty dated. But it is still well done, given when it was made, etc.

One thing about the evacuation that has always puzzled me: why was Sickbay evacuated?

Sickbay was on deck twelve of the Saucer Section, close to the centre of the deck to afford it as much protection as possible. No medical facility was ever established as being in the Drive Section, though it would make sense when the ship was separated, so as to treat casualties during a combat situation--but why would Beverly be there instead of the main facility?

The sickbay in the saucer isn't the only sickbay on the ship. In fact, given that the stardrive is the bit that is more likely to go into battle, it would make sense it has medical facilities there too. You wouldn't want your crew to die just because the saucer took the hospital when it scampered off.

I acknowledge that as a logical assumption, though such a facility was never stated to exist (although on the E-E, there seems to be a small medical bay on the same deck as main engineering). But why would Dr Crusher be there? Surely she would be in the main ward seeing to things there and leave a subordinate (Selar, Martin) in charge of the stardrive sickbay evacuation.

 

[beamMe]

I remember when "Generations" came out, reviewers praised the saucer crash as being one of the shows great moments and a special effects triumph.

I was rewatching it the other day and seeing it now it seems horrendously long and tedious. A lot like the infamous "disaster" flicks from the 1970s that dwells forever on things breaking, people falling, and sparks flying.

Anyone else feelt this way?

The crash-sequence is one of the high points of that film.

The VFX-elements are beautifully shot.

 

[horatio83]

Visually-wise it is probably one of the best sequences of all movies.

 

[Finn]

^


2) Yes, really. Those windows are expected to survive weapon blasts, crashes and other such trauma in space. Then they break when there's a crash scene? There's no reason for that but lack of continuity and that someone on the set thought it would be "cool."

No, they aren't expected to by themselves, or phasers and torpodeos wouldn't be able to cut through a whole saucer section in those battles we saw in various Trek episodes and movies.... Of course those windows would break, Did you think the hull of the saucer would just buckle and dent without affecting the windows after impacting the ground especially when it is designed for outer space.

3) Yes, the did have to evacuate the crew. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the civilians. There were tons of them being moved in that scene, especially that little dramatic scene of the girl dropping her bear. The whole point of a separable ship is to keep the civilians safe in crisis situations. That means they should all be in the saucer. But evacuating the crew wouldn't be "dramatic" so yeah.

Well, they might have been in a classroom in the neck or something...

It'd explain why there was so many children without a parent present...