Anyone feel Nimoy shouldn't be in this film?
- Thread starter Phantassm
- Start date
I don't really care one way or the other.
I just want to see a good movie.
And I'm glad they have finally confirmed that they are going with Gay Spock.
I just want to see a good movie.
And I'm glad they have finally confirmed that they are going with Gay Spock.
Ditto, they just need to make a GOOD movie and ingore the crys of "It NEEDS <Insert Here>, or it's gonna SUCK!" comments from the 'die-hard' fans who haven't even seen word one of the actual script.
I think Nimoy's presence speaks well of the film over all.
As to Shatner I don't care either way. If he's there ok, if not that's also ok.
Sharr
As to Shatner I don't care either way. If he's there ok, if not that's also ok.
Sharr
I think you missed the "parody" part of "bloated parody," there.
I like the idea of Nimoy being in the film. I don't care one way or the other about Shatner.
Glad that's settled.
I like the idea of Nimoy being in the film. I don't care one way or the other about Shatner.
Glad that's settled.
Some fat people have plenty of dignity. Shatner isn't one of 'em. He's intentionally made an entire second career for himself portraying a stylized parody of himself. That is a completely seperate issue from how ridiculous his bloated face would look sticking out of a Starfleet Captain's uniform of any Trek era. William Shatner's very presence in a production is a punchline unto itself.
Nimoy being in the film is a brilliant idea - but only because they found a guy who looks like he really could be a younger version of Nimoy. If there were a big difference in looks, I'd say forget Nimoy, it'll just look bad.
I'd rather he not be as I'd rather see the movie stand on it's own but I'm ok with him being there.
Casting Nimoy was a big mistake.
Yes, for sentimental reasons it'll be great to see him in the ears again, but by casting Nimoy they have underminded everything Zachary Quinto is going to try to do in playing the character of Spock, because everyone will be comparing him to Nimoy -- a comparison that would happen anyway, but you'll have Nimoy IN THE SAME MOVIE.
It's the same reason why you'll never see Sean Connery appearing as a villain or as M in the James Bond films (something that, reportedly, has been seriously considered from time to time). It would completely overshadow Daniel Craig or anyone else playing the part.
A second reason why it was a bad idea is that there is a very vocal faction of Trek fandom - we've seen them here and in TrekWeb, etc - who want to see Shatner return as Kirk, either by somehow ignoring the film Generations, or by hijacking the storyline to explain how and why Kirk managed to survive Generations. It's going to be a hard sell as it is no matter who is chosen to play Kirk, but the fact they brought in Nimoy just gives all the more ammo to the naysayers who will spend the next year and a bit explaining to everyone within earshot why they won't go see this film and why no one else should go see it either.
In another thread I made reference to TrekXI scaring mainstream audiences away who don't want to encounter Trekkies in ears and uniforms picketing the theatre. I wish I could say that was a joke, an exaggeration to illustrate a point. But to be honest I fully expect to see something of that nature occurring. It will start with a wave of "JOEBLOWISNOTKIRK.COM"-style websites. Bet money on that.
I'm really happy to see Nimoy play Spock again, don't get me wrong. But if JJ Abrams really wanted to reboot/relaunch/reimagine Star Trek, they should have made a clean break and started completely fresh. And if there was a concern about Trekkies needing some sort of "validation" from the original cast, then they could have easily covered that by giving Nimoy a producer or consultant credit. Heck, they could have also done the same with Shatner and someone from the Roddenberry clan and made everybody happy.
Cheers
Alex
Yes, for sentimental reasons it'll be great to see him in the ears again, but by casting Nimoy they have underminded everything Zachary Quinto is going to try to do in playing the character of Spock, because everyone will be comparing him to Nimoy -- a comparison that would happen anyway, but you'll have Nimoy IN THE SAME MOVIE.
It's the same reason why you'll never see Sean Connery appearing as a villain or as M in the James Bond films (something that, reportedly, has been seriously considered from time to time). It would completely overshadow Daniel Craig or anyone else playing the part.
A second reason why it was a bad idea is that there is a very vocal faction of Trek fandom - we've seen them here and in TrekWeb, etc - who want to see Shatner return as Kirk, either by somehow ignoring the film Generations, or by hijacking the storyline to explain how and why Kirk managed to survive Generations. It's going to be a hard sell as it is no matter who is chosen to play Kirk, but the fact they brought in Nimoy just gives all the more ammo to the naysayers who will spend the next year and a bit explaining to everyone within earshot why they won't go see this film and why no one else should go see it either.
In another thread I made reference to TrekXI scaring mainstream audiences away who don't want to encounter Trekkies in ears and uniforms picketing the theatre. I wish I could say that was a joke, an exaggeration to illustrate a point. But to be honest I fully expect to see something of that nature occurring. It will start with a wave of "JOEBLOWISNOTKIRK.COM"-style websites. Bet money on that.
I'm really happy to see Nimoy play Spock again, don't get me wrong. But if JJ Abrams really wanted to reboot/relaunch/reimagine Star Trek, they should have made a clean break and started completely fresh. And if there was a concern about Trekkies needing some sort of "validation" from the original cast, then they could have easily covered that by giving Nimoy a producer or consultant credit. Heck, they could have also done the same with Shatner and someone from the Roddenberry clan and made everybody happy.
Cheers
Alex
There's no way to know that it was a mistake, big or otherwise, until we see the completed film.
You incorrectly assume that some level of objectivity among the long-time fans will rule the day when the film finally comes out.
Samuel T. Cogley said:
You incorrectly assume that some level of objectivity among the long-time fans will rule the day when the film finally comes out.
That's the thing -- this has nothing to do about whether the film is any good. I trust Nimoy when he says he wouldn't have signed up if he didn't love the script. And unlike Shatner (Trek V, anyone?) I trust Nimoy's judgement.
But the fact is a year-long buildup of bad word of mouth is enough to sink any film. A prime example is Nemesis which was being badmouthed here (and elsewhere) for months, and it became a self-fulfilling prophecy when those few Trekkers who bothered to go see it watched it with the eye of justifying their hatred of it that had built up. OTOH people who've watched it with an open mind -- and who could care less that young Picard wasn't bald, etc. -- seem to be of the opinion that it was an OK movie.
And I fear the exact same situation is going to happen here. Especially when plot details start to leak or if they make a controversial choice for Kirk. Trek XI could be the best Star Trek movie ever made, but that could be moot if the fanbase turns against it.
Cheers
Alex
To the OP...
If the character of Kirk were still alive, I would be all for a Post-Generations (say 12 years later) Kirk and Spock together in a film -- played by Shatner and Nimoy. The problem with Kirk's age is the fact that he died in Generations, and any film that would include him would need to be pre-Generations, or include some convuluted resurrection that would require too much screen time (unless the resurrection of Kirk has been written into the script all along.)
Spock isn't dead...he was alive after Generations, he was alive during TNG, and we have no reason to think he's dead in a post-Nemesis timeframe. Nimoy may look a little too old for a 23rd century post-Generations film, but so what...maybe he doesn't age well. Besides, a little make-up could fix that.
So I don't believe it is the case that people think Shatner is too old to play a role in this film. He's just too old to play a Kirk who is still alive.
If the character of Kirk were still alive, I would be all for a Post-Generations (say 12 years later) Kirk and Spock together in a film -- played by Shatner and Nimoy. The problem with Kirk's age is the fact that he died in Generations, and any film that would include him would need to be pre-Generations, or include some convuluted resurrection that would require too much screen time (unless the resurrection of Kirk has been written into the script all along.)
Spock isn't dead...he was alive after Generations, he was alive during TNG, and we have no reason to think he's dead in a post-Nemesis timeframe. Nimoy may look a little too old for a 23rd century post-Generations film, but so what...maybe he doesn't age well. Besides, a little make-up could fix that.
So I don't believe it is the case that people think Shatner is too old to play a role in this film. He's just too old to play a Kirk who is still alive.
Samuel T. Cogley said:
You incorrectly assume that some level of objectivity among the long-time fans will rule the day when the film finally comes out.
Well, "fairness" is what I was hoping for but you're probably right.
We need to get this whole notion of "objectivity" out of discussions about the popular arts, IMAO. Detachment, dispassion, fairness, balance - all those qualities I can buy into (though I've no intention of practicing any). But objectivity, nah.
The "fan base" matters not a jot, the difference here is this isn't being primarily aimed at Trek fans if it were it would be a losing venture.
Star Trek fans are a dwindling number, certainly not enough to make a profitable film - they need a general audience, one that as a rule doesn't care what a Trek fan thinks about anything.
Sharr
Exhibit A - my nonTrekkie girlfriend. She knew of TNG cause her dad watched it. She saw First Contact and it creeped her out. Upon dating me and finding out I'm into Trek TNG was her "base". She was Meh on Insurrection but I kid you not she really likes Nemesis. I even told her of its flaws but she doesn't care, it works for that movie for her and I guess the other "general audience" that isn't/wasn't entrenched in Trek lore or canon.
I'm glad Nimoy is in the movie and feel that Quinto having gained his own sense of fan appreciation via Heroes will help keep the criticism/comparisons to a simmer.
I'd like to see Kirk.
I wouldn't care if the plot involves some timetravel and the one "butterfly effect" to happen is the rebirth/nullification of Kirks death solely.
Side note: Since my girlfriend knows now that a TOS "classic" Trek movie is coming she wants to be ready. We've watched ST:6 and ST:2, she has seen 4 but its been awhile. She doesn't know it yet but if she keeps absorbing Trek she might find herself actually caring about things in the new movie that she dismisses as flaws in Nemesis and TNG.
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