Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush question

[indranee]

Hi all,

I've been advised to get a transmission flush done on my 2005 Neon (sxt) ASAP. The color of the current fluid in the transmission is a reddish-brown. My question is that after trolling the 'net for info, I've been seeing all kinds of comments about the tranny flush as opposed to just draining and topping up. Is there a difference? Does the flush damage the transmission? Do you recommend I do it asap, or can I wait a bit? I admit I've been changing my oil but have ignored the tranny fluid for a while (my bad) and I feel like kicking myself now.

I'm at 74,800 miles and have been having some basic problems with hesitancy during acceleration and rough idle control issues. I had the crankshaft sensor replaced (got the code) and the IAC cleaned but it didn't fix either of those issues. I think I have a few problems that may be related to each other, including motor mount bushings that are on the way out (not looking forward to fix that!). I chatted with a Dodge Neon expert online yesterday and he said the hesitancy is probably due to the mount bushings being worn out. He suggested I could wait to do the flush and instead should save up for the mount bushings.

The car actually runs great (though I don't push it too much above 75mph, if that, these days. I'm mainly city-driving) once it's in third gear etc but the hesitancy issue only happens when I pull out of a stop light etc. Meaning, when I go from 0 to 25-30 or whatever.

Any ideas, suggestions or thoughts (or kicks in the butt) would be welcome. Many thanks in advance!

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Have you smelled your transmission fluid immediately after driving? You can pull the dipstick and check it. If it smells burnt, you already have transmission damage and it's possible a flush will make it worse or kill it entirely.

Changing the fluid and filter should be sufficient, and that should be every couple years or 30K miles (give or take.) Flushes can damage seals and force particles ground off by transmission damage into sensitive areas and ruin your transmission.

I'm not convinced a flush is ever necessary. All they should have to do is drop the pan, change the fluid, replace the filter, and off you go. Flushes are overkill, in my opinion.

I admit I am not really a car wonk, so someone more knowledgeable may be along to tell you not to listen to me.

 

[indranee]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Thanks so much! I'll go smell it during lunch (that sounded wierd lol). Does the engine have to be running or should I kill the engine before checking? thanks so much for your answer. I have a feeling you're right about the flush. I've been hearing similar comments everywhere...

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Nah, engine doesn't need to be running. Just make sure you've driven a bit so that the transmission has shifted up/down several times. If anything is being ground up in there, you will certainly smell it in the fluid.

 

[indranee]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Okay, thanks Robert

 

[farmkid]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Have you smelled your transmission fluid immediately after driving? You can pull the dipstick and check it. If it smells burnt, you already have transmission damage and it's possible a flush will make it worse or kill it entirely.

Changing the fluid and filter should be sufficient, and that should be every couple years or 30K miles (give or take.) Flushes can damage seals and force particles ground off by transmission damage into sensitive areas and ruin your transmission.

I'm not convinced a flush is ever necessary. All they should have to do is drop the pan, change the fluid, replace the filter, and off you go. Flushes are overkill, in my opinion.

I admit I am not really a car wonk, so someone more knowledgeable may be along to tell you not to listen to me.

The advantage of a flush, however, is that it changes all the fluid whereas if you drop the pan, you only change about half of the fluid. In this case, since the fluid is already bad (based on the color), changing only half the fluid might not be enough. If the OP just drops the pan, he (or she?) might want to do it a couple of times a days or two apart to replace more of the fluid.

 

[indranee]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

thanks farmkid. I guess my question is this: will a flush further damage my transmission (I guess I won't know how bad it has been damaged until they go in) or will the "drain and fill" a better procedure for this car? Will the flush push my transmission further into damaged status or is that just a rumor? thanks so much, both of you.

PS. I spoke to an Dodge/Neon expert last night online and he said the hesitation is probably not due to the transmission but bad motor mount bushings. I did have that diagnosed earlier. He recommends that I wait to spend my money on those (expensive procedure) than a flush.

 

[farmkid]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

I've never heard that flushing the transmission can do more damage, and it doesn't really make sense to me that it could. Here's how a flush works, as far as I understand it: the oil lines going to and from the oil cooler are hooked to a machine and then the car is started. Instead of pumping the oil through the cooler, the oil is pumped into the machine, where it is put into a waste container. At the same time, the machine feeds new oil in through the oil return line. As far as the transmission is concerned, nothing is different except that fresh oil instead of old oil is returning from the oil cooler. I can't think of any reason why that would further damage the transmission.

As for waiting and doing the motor mount bushings first, I can't really say which is better. I would think that continuing to use the bad oil would be bad for the transmission and may shorten its life considerably. However, if those bushings are worn to the point that the mounts may fail or that it's damaging other things as well, that could be even worse.

Although I know more than the average person about cars, I'm not a mechanic an by no means an expert. My brother is, however, and I'll be seeing him today. I'll ask him for his opinion and let you know what he says.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Plus any "material" that might be in there would come out with a flush.

I'm talking about any potential burnt parts of the belts or bits of bushings gone bad. It'll let you know if there's any bigger problems.

 

[indranee]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

I've never heard that flushing the transmission can do more damage, and it doesn't really make sense to me that it could. Here's how a flush works, as far as I understand it: the oil lines going to and from the oil cooler are hooked to a machine and then the car is started. Instead of pumping the oil through the cooler, the oil is pumped into the machine, where it is put into a waste container. At the same time, the machine feeds new oil in through the oil return line. As far as the transmission is concerned, nothing is different except that fresh oil instead of old oil is returning from the oil cooler. I can't think of any reason why that would further damage the transmission.

As for waiting and doing the motor mount bushings first, I can't really say which is better. I would think that continuing to use the bad oil would be bad for the transmission and may shorten its life considerably. However, if those bushings are worn to the point that the mounts may fail or that it's damaging other things as well, that could be even worse.

Although I know more than the average person about cars, I'm not a mechanic an by no means an expert. My brother is, however, and I'll be seeing him today. I'll ask him for his opinion and let you know what he says.

Hi farmkid, thanks for explaining this. It makes a lot of sense. ANd thanks for asking your brother. Please let me know what he thinks. MY car failed inspection yesterday due to two bad tires (back ones) so this is like the perfect storm lol! I'll be replacing those tires next week. take care, and thanks again.

 

[indranee]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Plus any "material" that might be in there would come out with a flush.

I'm talking about any potential burnt parts of the belts or bits of bushings gone bad. It'll let you know if there's any bigger problems.

Yeah, that does make sense (almost like cleaning it out). Please let me know if you find anything else. My instincts are telling me to do the flush but I guess I'm running a bit scared because of all these different views. So it does help to know what you guys here think.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Does the 2005 Neon still run the tranny fluid through the main radiator for cooling?

 

[Saturn0660]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Changing the fluid and filter should be sufficient, and that should be every couple years or 30K miles (give or take.) Flushes can damage seals and force particles ground off by transmission damage into sensitive areas and ruin your transmission.

I'm not convinced a flush is ever necessary. All they should have to do is drop the pan, change the fluid, replace the filter, and off you go. Flushes are overkill, in my opinion.

Whats the owners manual say? My 06 Scion xB says the tranny change is never needed. It shows required maintenance out to about 200K miles.

 

[indranee]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Does the 2005 Neon still run the tranny fluid through the main radiator for cooling?

Wasn't that a 2004 Neon feature? I'm no expert, of course. I'll find out....

 

[Captain Ice]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

I'm with farmkid on this. The big difference is that when you simply drop the pan to change the transmission fluid you cannot drain the fluid in the torque converter. Flushing the fluid forces new fluid into the entire transmission, thereby forcing all of the old fluid out.

One thing you have failed to mention is whether your car is a stick or an automatic. With an automatic, your fluid should be a reddish brown when fresh and not smell burnt. To check, take the car out and run it for 45 minutes or so, making sure the transmission goes through all the gears. Then check the fluid when the engine is still hot.

Something else that you should know...when you have the transmission flushed, you should also have them drop the pan and change the filter. This will cost a bit more, but will extend the life of your transmission.

As far as your motor mounts go, there is an easy test, but it requires another individual. Have that individual sit in the car with the motor running. With the hood up, have this individual shift from Park to reverse and drive while holding the brake pedal down as far as they can. While they do this, you watch the top of the motor. If the motor shifts more than an inch to either side, your mounts need to be replaced.

Regarding your current driveability issues, when was the last time you had your fuel filter replaced? What you describe sounds to me more like a partially clogged fuel filter than it does issues with either the transmission or the motor mounts.

 

[boobatuba]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Regarding your current driveability issues, when was the last time you had your fuel filter replaced? What you describe sounds to me more like a partially clogged fuel filter than it does issues with either the transmission or the motor mounts.

The 2005 Neon doesn't have a serviceable fuel filter.

That's the problem with "general" advice about automotive problems from strangers on a forum. That said, here's my "general advice" about transmission flushes.

Don't waste your money. The fluid in your Neon is designed by the manufacturer to be a lifetime fluid. It doesn't need to be serviced. And, in fact, it is absolutely true that a flush can potentially damage the transmission. Deep in the innards of the transmission there are parts that get "mated" together through wear, gum, and varnish. A flush that dissolves these can potentially loosen wear-fitted parts and cause problems. It's not likely, but it's possible.

In my opinion as someone who's worked in auto parts for almost 20 years, flushes in general are a waste of money and almost qualify as a scam by the "quicky-lube" places. The only real exception is air conditioning system flushes that are essential when replacing a compressor.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Does the 2005 Neon still run the tranny fluid through the main radiator for cooling?

Wasn't that a 2004 Neon feature? I'm no expert, of course. I'll find out....

All I know it was a 1994 Sundance feature, and Neons replaced Sundances and really weren't that different.

I had to replace a radiator on the 94 I had, so that's how I know the tranny fluid went through there

 

[CaptainStoner]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

When I changed my transmission fluid (with Saturn S-series this is just like an oil change - screw filter, drain plug) I'm sure nearly all the listed capacity drained out. Certainly there was nowhere near 50% left in - that would be close to a whole gallon. I also had to put full capacity back in. +/- a few percent.

 

[boobatuba]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

Does the 2005 Neon still run the tranny fluid through the main radiator for cooling?

Wasn't that a 2004 Neon feature? I'm no expert, of course. I'll find out....

All I know it was a 1994 Sundance feature, and Neons replaced Sundances and really weren't that different.

I had to replace a radiator on the 94 I had, so that's how I know the tranny fluid went through there

I show two possible radiators on the 2005 Neon (and the 2004, for that matter). One has a transmission cooler built in (the very bottom part of the radiator is baffled off...it doesn't run the fluid through the whole thing) and another option doesn't. This probably corresponds to automatics (with the trans cooler) and manuals (without the trans cooler), but the cataloging doesn't say that.

From the amount of articles online recommending an "add-on" transmission cooler, it would appear the small one in the bottom of the radiator isn't very effective.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Re: Any car people here today who can asnwer a transmission flush ques

^ I knew it wasn't the whole radiator. I was replacing mine because it leaked anti-freeze and was actually surprised by the tranny fluid lines.