Anti-Borg technology and tactics

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Hando, May 31, 2013.

  1. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Aug 26, 2003
    That sounds really, really implausible. They have a space station and a starship, both Starfleet issue, and they report to Admiral Kirk in at least some capacity. By the looks of the security arrangements, their research is behind generic Starfleet seals, rather than in Kirk's private archives. And they toy with entire planets.

    If anything, I'd think they do a lot more paperwork than the average skunk works that only develops weapons one can test in a closed range a Klingon agent would be hard pressed to penetrate...

    With something this big, the standard procedure ITRW would be that Carol would have to give weekly urine samples and reports on who she had sex with, how, for how long, and what he said about it. If Carol tried to say "Trust me, I'm doing my job, you'll see the results when it's finished", ITRW they'd first have to fire her and then have to kill her.

    ...Except for the entire setup where Carol gets a lab, a team and a planetoid, eventually complete with a cave that must cost the taxpayers a fortune in no-this-is-not-money if it tied down Starfleet's finest for so long. SCE would definitely say "no thanks" if Carol had nothing to show for her progress on Stage One.

    To the contrary, there's no reason to believe Carol had any rights to the research she was conducting. It would be extremely rarely ITRW that somebody like her would. It's not a commercial product she's developing, it's the next Manhattan Project. David had the right idea all along: the research is Starfleet's to take, and they don't have to ask for permission from Carol's team or even the government because they know that Carol's direct boss is Admiral Kirk.

    That is, it's clear the Reliant and its Captain Terrell don't have the authority to take Genesis, despite the big guns and the shoulder brass. But the name of Kirk changes everything. Carol despairs over the issue of "proper authorization", an issue where Kirk's word apparently is crucial - meaning he can give this authorization or deny it. Kirk (or the government through him) owns Genesis, Carol just works for him (that is, for the government).

    Timo Saloniemi
  2. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 12, 2006
    Your Mom
    They HAVE a space station. The Reliant has been placed at their disposal, but Reliant's commander answers to Starfleet, not Carol Marcus.

    And Carol Marcus answers to no one, ESPECIALLY not to Reliant, and is understandably pissed when that situation suddenly changes without explanation.

    If by "report to" you mean "Make angry phone calls to your ex boyfriend who also happens to be a high-ranking Admiral in Starfleet."

    The PROPOSAL is behind generic seals. The actual research is absent from the computers of both Enterprise AND Reliant. Khan assumed Kirk would have more information because the Admiral would presumably have access to sensitive information like that; it's hardly the first thing Khan has been wrong about.

    Except Genesis isn't a weapon, and the Genesis Team -- unlike Skunkworks -- isn't working under Starfleet's umbrella. Remember Carol's use of words here: "Project Genesis: a Proposal to the Federation."

    IOW, it's a purely civilian project. Starfleet assistance is part of the funding she asked for; Starfleet OVERSIGHT was never part of the deal.

    IF she was a member of Starfleet and IF Genesis was a government program. But it isn't. It's a civilian program receiving government funding.

    Genesis is the Polywell Fusion Reactor, not the Manhattan Project.

    Stage One was completed in a laboratory before they got ANY of that; Regula-1 and Reliant were an answer to her proposal in funding for Stage Two.

    Exactly. She'd already completed stage one BEFORE she asked the Federation for funding. Thus Genesis started as a civilian project initiated with the 23rd century equivalent of "private funds."

    To the contrary, there's no reason to believe Carol had any rights to the research she was conducting.[/quote]
    Carol was the ONLY one with the rights to the research, hence the reason she was so pissed off when Chekov told her she was coming to get it. Hence the deleted lines (preserved in the Director's Cut) where she tells him "Genesis is a civilian project under my authority" and later tells him "I have no intention of allowing unauthorized personnel access to our work or materials."

    "Unauthorized personnel" in this case means "You." E.g. "Starfleet." E.g. "People who do not work for me and I do not trust."

    Dr. Robert Bussard did it for 30 years. Why would Marcus be any different?

    Yes it is. Again her proposal "When you consider the cosmic problems of population and food supply, the usefulness of this process becomes clear."

    Genesis is a terraforming device, not a weapon.
  3. SarYehudah

    SarYehudah Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Jun 9, 2013
    Margaritaville, Florida
    I don't believe they can adapt to physical force, which includes bullets, rockets, flamethrowers, etc.... You can kill them in hand to hand. It's not so much a matter of that i think. Most planets use energy weapons for defense and if the borg ever found themselves facing a ground army of tanks, rocket launchers, soldiers armed with assault rifles, they can simply destroy them when they are out of range. Also their Cubes can cut up pieces of a planet's surface and suck up the poor suckers to be assimilated. this is what happened in Vendetta.
  4. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 22, 2010
    I loved that novel. The brute force apprach, a return to slug throwers, maybe a handful of Denobulans resistant to their tech makes the Borg go from assimilation to annihilation in the later novels--that and getting rid of the borg queen as a point of weakness.