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Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

Oh. My. God. [/charlton heston]

This was awful. Just completely awful. Although I found precisely two redeeming elements in the episode, this is one I wish I could forget. Yes, it's...

"The Fight"

We open with an uncommonly agitated Chakotay in sickbay, screaming, "I'm tired! I want to sleep." The Doctor makes him remember "a few weeks ago" when he was on the holodeck.

We get a very cheesy old-time boxing ring, with Boothby as Chakotay's trainer. I'm guessing this is mostly because Ray Walston was the closest they could find to Burgess Meredith and not because there's any logical reason that the Academy's groundskeeper would moonlight as a boxing trainer.

Chakotay's squaring off against a Terellian who he has about 50 pounds on, but he still seems skittish. Realistically, unless the Terellian was way better than him, Chakotay should be able to push him around the ring just because of the size difference. If they wanted to impress me, they should have gotten Tony Todd to come back to play his opponent.

And here's where I notice something strange. Kid Chaos (the Terellian) is wearing a tank top, while Chakotay is wearing a tank top on top of a t-shirt. And I notice they consistently don't show his bare chest. In the scene where Neelix is massaging him, he gets up and very carefully doesn't show his chest to the camera, and in the next shot is back to the t-shirt/tank top combo. What gives? I'm guessing he either has some extremely offensive tattoos across his upper body, or he's just flabby.

In any case, I now have an ace in the hole if, for some reason, Robert Beltran were to run into me at a convention and call me a geeky loser. Unlike Beltran, I have been on television with my shirt off. So there.

Anyway, this episode manages to hit FIVE horrible cliches--almost a record. They are:

1. Holodeck episode
2. Chakotay vision quest
3. DNA getting "switched on" and making instant changes
4. a cave
5. warped space

Any one of those would be enough to tank a decent episode, but get them together and they're deadly. But that's not to say a good episode can't handle them; "Tin Man" has Data reciting the thesaurus and a Betazoid feeling "great pain," but it's still an awesome episode. "The Fight," however, is definitely not.

Another really annoying thing is a cheesy alliterative nicknames that all boxers have: "Kid Chaos," "The Maquis Mauler," etc.

As far as the episode itself, it makes no sense--apparently the whole thing is a flashback, and at one point there's a flashback inside the flashback, which makes it double back on itself, because at the end we're back in real time. Head hurts--must lie down.

So what were the good things?

First, the guy who played Chakotay's crazy grandad had a very nice speaking voice. I'd love to hear him to books on tape.

Second, Tom's observation that the odds have come in "from Vegas, Mars, and Orion" proves that Las Vegas is apparently still around in the 24th century, and is still a center for gambling. Since it's my hometown, that's something I've wondered about for a while. I guess it's possible that it's actually another planet called Vegas, but the way Tom says it seems to go from closer to farther--Vegas (on Earth), Mars (solar system), Orion (other star system). So I can argue that it is canon that sports betting still exists on Earth in Trek's future. Maybe.

I used to work in surveillance, and when things got really dreary I'd just space out and watch the date/time stamp on the screen, seeing the seconds tick by. There were several times during this episode that I did the same exact thing with my DVD player.

So this is one of the worst episodes of Voyager I've seen, and one of the worst episodes of anything on TV. It made no sense, the acting was bad, and it was just a total waste of time.

I can see why Chakotay didn't get more of the spotlight.
 
Apparently, this was the episode that was specifically for Beltran because he boxes IRL.

Since I haven't seen it and I've now read your review, I will just not ever watch it. :)
 
I thought it was kind of cool. A little. It was the first decent Chakotay episode since Basics, I think.

My only issue was the end with the Chaos aliens talking to him through the clips. I hated that.

And Beltran was just flabby, they . . . . Long story short I'll run off and find the YouTube interview.
 
Apparently, this was the episode that was specifically for Beltran because he boxes IRL.

He played football. Not boxing. :lol:



According to him they told him early in the season that he would be doing the boxing episode later on and he begged them to give him two months to get into shape, but when time came around he only got two days. So he was flabby.

ETA: didn't Boothby train Picard in the marathon and boxing too?
 
We get a very cheesy old-time boxing ring, with Boothby as Chakotay's trainer. I'm guessing this is mostly because Ray Walston was the closest they could find to Burgess Meredith and not because there's any logical reason that the Academy's groundskeeper would moonlight as a boxing trainer.

Because Boothby is the secret ruler of the universe.

In any case, I now have an ace in the hole if, for some reason, Robert Beltran were to run into me at a convention and call me a geeky loser. Unlike Beltran, I have been on television with my shirt off. So there.

I'm hoping that wasn't on your recent C-Span appearance. :lol:

Oh, well, sorry you didn't like the episode. I thought it was fun. Not in the same league as "Unexpected" or "Sub Rosa", but not bad.
 
We get a very cheesy old-time boxing ring, with Boothby as Chakotay's trainer. I'm guessing this is mostly because Ray Walston was the closest they could find to Burgess Meredith and not because there's any logical reason that the Academy's groundskeeper would moonlight as a boxing trainer.

Because Boothby is the secret ruler of the universe.

In any case, I now have an ace in the hole if, for some reason, Robert Beltran were to run into me at a convention and call me a geeky loser. Unlike Beltran, I have been on television with my shirt off. So there.

I'm hoping that wasn't on your recent C-Span appearance. :lol:

Oh, well, sorry you didn't like the episode. I thought it was fun. Not in the same league as "Unexpected" or "Sub Rosa", but not bad.

AMG, I am in agreement with you on both counts. Definitely fun, and I liked seeing Chakotay getting an episode. Beltran played a decent crazy man.

Did anyone notice how Janeway totally used Chakotay's feelings for her against him? The man was terrified of listening to the voices he thought meant he was going crazy, and she went to him and touched him, asking him "please, do this for me?" then as soon as he reluctantly agreed immediately leaving him to face his biggest fear alone with the doctor. Chakotay would do anything for her, she knew that, and used it. Cold, Janeway. Cold.
 
You got it you flaunt it.

Janeway used the Angry Warrior legend to her advantage a few times. This was one of the more obvious ones. :rofl:
 
There is no polite way to put it, this ep. sucks Yak Nuts.:klingon:

IMO this episode is far, far worse than "Threshold".
At least "Threshold" can be watched as a Halloween ep., this one is just to painful to even sit through. It's the only episode in the series I can't watch all the way though.

Did anyone notice how Janeway totally used Chakotay's feelings for her against him? The man was terrified of listening to the voices he thought meant he was going crazy, and she went to him and touched him, asking him "please, do this for me?" then as soon as he reluctantly agreed immediately leaving him to face his biggest fear alone with the doctor. Chakotay would do anything for her, she knew that, and used it. Cold, Janeway. Cold.

Yes and 100% agreed...............................and she still wouldn't give it up to him.
I swear he started dating Seven for revenge.
 
One thing I forgot to mention in my original post:

For some reason they gave him Laker colors (purple and gold) to wear in the ring. I hope he's a Laker fan.

And then, when he took off his robe, he was wearing a purple lycra shirt. Ouch.

I can understand if he doesn't want to go shirtless, but I think the tank top over the t-shirt is pushing it.

And the "stuck in a spatial anomaly" has been done so many times--I know there was an early TNG episode that had almost exactly the same plot. But Riker didn't get a purple lycra shirt.
 
One thing I forgot to mention in my original post:

For some reason they gave him Laker colors (purple and gold) to wear in the ring. I hope he's a Laker fan.

And then, when he took off his robe, he was wearing a purple lycra shirt. Ouch.
I think that now makes him a Prince fan. :lol:
 
One thing I forgot to mention in my original post:

And the "stuck in a spatial anomaly" has been done so many times--I know there was an early TNG episode that had almost exactly the same plot. But Riker didn't get a purple lycra shirt.

Maybe they wanted to be sure we knew that spatial anomalies also exist in the Delta Quadrant. :p
 
One thing I forgot to mention in my original post:

And the "stuck in a spatial anomaly" has been done so many times--I know there was an early TNG episode that had almost exactly the same plot. But Riker didn't get a purple lycra shirt.

Maybe they wanted to be sure we knew that spatial anomalies also exist in the Delta Quadrant. :p

One thing I forgot to mention in my original post:

For some reason they gave him Laker colors (purple and gold) to wear in the ring. I hope he's a Laker fan.

And then, when he took off his robe, he was wearing a purple lycra shirt. Ouch.
I think that now makes him a Prince fan. :lol:

And that Prince fans still exist in the 24th century! :guffaw:
 
One thing I forgot to mention in my original post:

And the "stuck in a spatial anomaly" has been done so many times--I know there was an early TNG episode that had almost exactly the same plot. But Riker didn't get a purple lycra shirt.

Maybe they wanted to be sure we knew that spatial anomalies also exist in the Delta Quadrant. :p

One thing I forgot to mention in my original post:

For some reason they gave him Laker colors (purple and gold) to wear in the ring. I hope he's a Laker fan.

And then, when he took off his robe, he was wearing a purple lycra shirt. Ouch.
I think that now makes him a Prince fan. :lol:

And that Prince fans still exist in the 24th century! :guffaw:

Hey, don't underestimate the power of the Purple Yoda.;)
 
In any case, I now have an ace in the hole if, for some reason, Robert Beltran were to run into me at a convention and call me a geeky loser. Unlike Beltran, I have been on television with my shirt off. So there.

Soooo, is there a clip of this televised shirtlessness somewhere? ;) (And he technically had his shirt off in "Tattoo," although the butt was a stunt butt)

Also, this episode isn't good or anything, but I've seen it several times and it's never bothered me that much. It's just sort of there. I probably just like it for the J/C bits, including that little punch in the hallway which WAS VERY CUTE.

I also sort of like that part when the alien is standing in the corner of the boxing ring and the whole room starts fracturing behind him. Gotta give this one points for looking cool.
 
Froot, you're right. This episode is awesome for fanart source material. Maybe that makes me judge it more kindly. I mean, you've got J/C *and* Chak getting his butt whooped right there in the same ep. Something for everyone!
 
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