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Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

After a few days of doing other stuff, I am back in corporeal form to discuss...

"In the Flesh"

This is a really good Blondie song, so I had high hopes for the episode. I thought it would be, "Seven is transformed into a completely un-Borged human" or something like that, so I was way off with my guess.

Actually, I've been having a lot of fun guessing the plot based on the title before I see it. I don't think I've gotten close yet.

So, the tease is Chakotay at Starfleet headquarters. It isn't a flashback, so it's either an alternate universe or an anomaly. And yay! Tucker Smallwood's here. And his character actually has a name! Good for him.

Then we meet Boothby. I love Boothby and all that, but my wife had a good point: "Out of everyone from TNG, he's the one the fans wanted to see again?"

So basically Species 8472 feels threatened by humans, even though they live in another dimension, and they're going to do something about it: make replicas of Starfleet command and pretend to be human.

Even though this episode has some good moments, it's completely illogical. Why would 8472 go through all this trouble? They're so over-powered, the Federation wouldn't stand a chance against them. And if they really wanted to study humans, why not just track down and capture Voyager?

And weren't they telephathic?

I also don't understand how Tuvok and Chakotay are able to infiltrate the place.

So the whole set-up doesn't make sense. But then, once Janeway finds out that it's 8472, things start making even less sense. Clearly, 8472's been to Earth, if they're able to duplicate everything so perfectly. It never crosses anyone's mind to say, "Hey, if you give us a ride to Earth, we can clear this entire mess up."

Also, if they've got such sophisticated surveillance, why not just monitor Federation subspace radio for a few weeks. They'd see right away that no one knew about 8472. Weren't they pre-occupied with the Dominion War, anyway? For that matter, just read Janeway's logs, which would explain that the conflict was really a defensive one, and that she didn't initiate the incursion into fluidic space?

Instead, we get a really tired, "We shouldn't fight...we should trust each other" episode, which, again, hardly needs saying at this point. It's not like Trek fans are a bunch of warmongers who constantly need to be reminded that diplomacy can solve conflicts better than violence (sometimes).

And why doesn't anyone think to ask 8472 to take them home? Here's what I would have said:

A) Take us home
B) Fake Boothby becomes the 8472 ambassador to the Federation
C) Everyone heads down to the Night Owl for a venti latte

And at the end, Voyager gains nothing of consequence--they didn't even ask for a ride home. So it's like they're trying not to get home.

And even though Tucker Smallwood's character has a name, he doesn't really get to do anything, as opposed to his next Trek role, where he'll get to do a lot, but won't have a name. That the writers know about, anyway.

So this one is a dud, mostly because the premise doesn't work. Species 8472 believed life in our universe was an infestation. If you had termites in your garage, would you dress up like a termite to get a better understand of how to fumigate them? The whole idea only works if 8472 respects humans as a sentient life form, which originally they did not.
 
^^I don;t think 8472 had been to Earth.
I think all the Ferengi cadets & Boothby in charge was meant to be an indication of their info was wrong. I think they got their info telepathically due to it. Remember how Kes couldn't clearly read their thoughts, it was jumbled to her. I just assume reading her mind or Tuvok's was jumbled to them. Besides, if 8472 are telepathic and live in a dimension all by themselves, how would they know how to read written English language to read a log? The fact that they actually can speak perfect English is bullsh*t too.

They only called a truce, they aren't really allies.
So you wouldn't ask someone who was trying to kill off your speices a minute ago for a ride home.

....but yes, it's a bad episode.
 
I liked the way they followed up on this in Star Trek Online, though. The 8472s sort of took the place of Changelings. Some of the shady admirals who gave me missions were actually 8472s, the bastards. Plus STO actually gave the things a real name (and it was better than the name from the Infinity's Prism book, too.)

Anyways, I was of the impression that the 8472s had never been to Earth and had gleaned all their info from Voyager telepathically since everyone at the Academy was wearing the "bellhop" Voyager-era uniforms instead of the uniforms with the gray tops. Not to mention the place was in good shape even though the Dominion War thing was going down back at home. Basically, the whole place looked a few years out of date, which would make sense if they got the info from Voyager.

But, yeah, I don't like this ep much either. And speaking of not taking a good opportunity to get home - I can't believe they didn't think of using fluidic space to try and get to the AQ or even the BQ back in "Scorpion." I guess they were a little busy at the time, but still.
 
BTW, a little Voyager trivia.
The human form of the Species 8472 they bring onboard Voyager was played by Zack Galligan from "Gremilins" fame, he was Billy. Galligan & Robert Picardo were both in "Gremilins 2" together.
 
I'm wondering if becoming other species and play acting them is how Species 8472 brainstorms a problem involving that species. Perhaps they do this kind of thing all the time, perhaps they even pretend to be each other when there is conflicts. It might be a unique method of discussion their race employs.
 
I'm wondering if becoming other species and play acting them is how Species 8472 brainstorms a problem involving that species. Perhaps they do this kind of thing all the time, perhaps they even pretend to be each other when there is conflicts. It might be a unique method of discussion their race employs.

Please tell me you write fanfic.
 
I'm wondering if becoming other species and play acting them is how Species 8472 brainstorms a problem involving that species. Perhaps they do this kind of thing all the time, perhaps they even pretend to be each other when there is conflicts. It might be a unique method of discussion their race employs.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that sort of thing would be perfect for the Hirogen.
 
I'm wondering if becoming other species and play acting them is how Species 8472 brainstorms a problem involving that species. Perhaps they do this kind of thing all the time, perhaps they even pretend to be each other when there is conflicts. It might be a unique method of discussion their race employs.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that sort of thing would be perfect for the Hirogen.

The Hirogen brainstorming and communicating? I think that takes too much time away from the trophy gathering!
 
This would be another reaction to the decline of their civilization. Instead of doing the holographic hunt thing, they decide that the best way to "hunt" is by getting a complete knowledge of their prey by trying to adopt their culture, even for a little while.

I'm chuckling because I'm imagining them trying to do ballroom dancing, and being very serious about it.
 
Ah so they can infiltrate a society and get their trophies en masse?

One problem with this, Hirogen can't shapeshift like Species 8472.

I need to see an Hirogen in an evening gown.
 
Well, I'm back with a story that begins in a land, far, far away...

"Once Upon a Time"

I figured this would be a holodeck episode with Seven as Rapunzel. As the episode start, I was repeating, "please no holodeck, please no holodeck." NOOOOOOO! We start out in a holodeck forest. Aggggrh.

And then we get two holodeck characters who make the annoying holodeck characters from "The Cost of Living" seem like normal, laid back guys.

After the credits, I learn that Flotter is played by Wallace Langham, who I know as the writer Phil from The Larry Sanders Show. I don't think this was the high point of his career, and my biggest takeaway from his performance is that he stands around with his hands on his hips quite a bit.

The actual episode is a Trek Standard stranded away team, but it's actually quite good. I never thought I'd say this, but a surprisingly strong performance from Ethan Phillips makes it work. His scene his Janeway in her ready room is fantastic, and probably the best Neelix scene I've watched yet.

Naomi was great, too. I loved when she was scared of Seven in the mess hall. Very believable. I don't usually expect to like performances from child actors in Trek, but she was pretty good.

On the downside, this episode introduces something that will probably be haunting my nightmares for quite some time, the Flotter Doll. There's something horrific about it; I don't know exactly what it is, but it really, really freaks me out. The only way I'd pay $1,569 for it would be to give it to Annorax to remove from the time stream completely. That thing seriously gives me the creeps. The only way to make it creepier would be to have the Vidiian with Durst's face grafted on giving it to Torres as a Valentine's Day present.

I was surprised that I liked this episode as much as I did. I just wish I could un-see the Flotter doll.
 
The only way I'd pay $1,569 for it would be to give it to Annorax to remove from the time stream completely.

I'd donate a few bucks to that effort.

And despite my general dislike of Neelix, I agree with you on the wonderful scene in the Ready Room. Also, I really like the scene with Tuvok and Wildman as she prepares to record her goodbye message. *wipes tear*
 
I was surprised that I liked this episode as much as I did. I just wish I could un-see the Flotter doll.

Is it too much of a spoiler to tell you that you haven't seen the last of the Flotter doll? I just feel like I want to prepare you somehow.
 
I think I need to go back and watch this episode. I have completely forgotten it.

But you're nearing the 100th. And I will say this, it is one of the two episodes that influenced the finale.
 
Yes it is weird that you have an ep with a classic Holodeck gone wrong story AND a child story and it's actually pretty good and not at all obnoxious.
 
The only way I'd pay $1,569 for it would be to give it to Annorax to remove from the time stream completely.

I'd donate a few bucks to that effort.

And despite my general dislike of Neelix, I agree with you on the wonderful scene in the Ready Room. Also, I really like the scene with Tuvok and Wildman as she prepares to record her goodbye message. *wipes tear*
:bolian:
 
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