Another take on "there's no money in the 24th century"
- Thread starter hxclespaulplayer
- Start date
So...
This is just a quote from a website, and a link to the site. There needs to be a topic of discussion and hopefully some original thought.
Do you agree with the author? Disagree? Any episodes support your theories? Etc.
Not that I relish this discussion again, but still you gotta put a little effort into it.
I'll give you a chance to flesh it out, otherwise I'll close it.
This is just a quote from a website, and a link to the site. There needs to be a topic of discussion and hopefully some original thought.
Do you agree with the author? Disagree? Any episodes support your theories? Etc.
Not that I relish this discussion again, but still you gotta put a little effort into it.
I'll give you a chance to flesh it out, otherwise I'll close it.
Why the supposition that synthehol is free, it has to be produced, the replicator consumes resources. At a bar or restaurant there is a building that cost money to keep open. The waiter/waitress that carries it to your table needs a income.
Free?
I'm sticking with the "no money = no paper bills/coins, it's all electronic" system.
It has the advantage of being supported by onscreen evidence, such as the frequent mentions of "Federation credits" and putting things on people's "accounts" and all that.
It has the advantage of being supported by onscreen evidence, such as the frequent mentions of "Federation credits" and putting things on people's "accounts" and all that.
I like to think that instead of money, they use Bubblegum cards as a currency instead. That's the reason why Ben Sisko covets his Buck Bokai. It's like sitting on ten $100 bills.
But in all seriousness...
^ This.
The one area of Star Trek lore that I won't make excuses for is the 'no money' thing. It's dumb, and it makes no sense on any grand scale, especially when we are shown that humans still have to go out there into space and deal with races who clearly do have money systems in place. A race that trades in Latnium aren't gonna take plastic beads in exchange for their goods, are they.
So for me, despite any claims to the contrary, it seems obvious that humans do still have some form of money system, even if they don't see it as a desirable object in itself.
But in all seriousness...^ This.
The one area of Star Trek lore that I won't make excuses for is the 'no money' thing. It's dumb, and it makes no sense on any grand scale, especially when we are shown that humans still have to go out there into space and deal with races who clearly do have money systems in place. A race that trades in Latnium aren't gonna take plastic beads in exchange for their goods, are they.
So for me, despite any claims to the contrary, it seems obvious that humans do still have some form of money system, even if they don't see it as a desirable object in itself.
I tend to agree. But, at the same time, how many of us regularly conduct our transactions in cash today? People use debit and credit cards for just about everything. Yet we don't say that's not money, or that we don't have money anymore.
I took 'no money' more as they're not dependent on it and/or "the basics are free". I imagine a socialist system where every citizen upon birth gets the basic shelter, food, and maybe transport package, but if they want fancier items, there's a credit/barter system that gets you mansions, starships, and weapons.
.
That sounds like some type of weird bartering/black male system.
One problem with the 'humans don't use money' concept is that we end up with a lot of odd explanations about how human economy works.
Interesting, but odd.
Trek already committed itself when it said 'there is no money' in the 24th century. That's what it gotta mean--humans don't use money anymore.
It's a system where it's stated that humans don't use money, but with no explanation or example of how it works.
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DS9 "In the Cards" is unambiguous: humans "decided to abandon currency-based economics in favor of some philosophy of self-enhancement." Not only did it leave no wiggle room about it, it made a good deal of appropriate fun at it too.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx5I7uEEEYo[/yt]
Hilarious!
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx5I7uEEEYo[/yt]
Hilarious!
^ Other episodes have been effectively declared non-canon; I just add that one to the list. 
One of my favorite scenes from a Shatnerverse novel:
Spock: "The Federation economy is based on a complex system of trade and barter....
Kirk (interrupting) "Can you explain it in 25 words or less?"
Spock (pauses) "No, i cannot".
Spock: "The Federation economy is based on a complex system of trade and barter....
Kirk (interrupting) "Can you explain it in 25 words or less?"
Spock (pauses) "No, i cannot".
I am really a fan of the "no Money" concept. How much talent, how many good minds get lost, unable to contribute to art and science because they are too busy acquiring resources in order to stay alive?
I think the credits and accounts often mentioned only show up when the Federation barters with non-Federation members (Ds9, the Farpoint aliens, the Tribble salesman).
I could see Starfleet/the Federation giving a stipend to personnel regularly in contact with non-Federation members.
Of course then tere's stuff like beach front property. Star Trek tries to make a big deal that humans are the happiest were they are from (Picard loves France, the Rozhenkos love the Caucasus etc.) so they wouldn't want beach front property in the tropics.
However that is BS. Not everybody loves a place only because they grew up there and there ARE places on earth that are nicer than others (let's compare Siberia with the Provence for example)
I could imagine that nicer/bigger houses get "awarded" for service towards the Federation/the Earth, but there's gotta be soe form of explanation.
I think the credits and accounts often mentioned only show up when the Federation barters with non-Federation members (Ds9, the Farpoint aliens, the Tribble salesman).
I could see Starfleet/the Federation giving a stipend to personnel regularly in contact with non-Federation members.
Of course then tere's stuff like beach front property. Star Trek tries to make a big deal that humans are the happiest were they are from (Picard loves France, the Rozhenkos love the Caucasus etc.) so they wouldn't want beach front property in the tropics.
However that is BS. Not everybody loves a place only because they grew up there and there ARE places on earth that are nicer than others (let's compare Siberia with the Provence for example)
I could imagine that nicer/bigger houses get "awarded" for service towards the Federation/the Earth, but there's gotta be soe form of explanation.
What I'd really like to hear an explanation for, is that if the Federation really does have no money, then how do they deal with those who refuse to work? In a society where anyone can get anything and live anywhere, you can bet (ha!) that there'd still be people who sit around all day doing nothing.
About the only thing I can think of is this: Perhaps boredom would overcome laziness.
@Jedimaster: I like that quote. But it reminds me of the essential problem with all barter-based societies: What happens if nobody wants what you have, and nobody has what you want?
About the only thing I can think of is this: Perhaps boredom would overcome laziness.
@Jedimaster: I like that quote.
But it reminds me of the essential problem with all barter-based societies: What happens if nobody wants what you have, and nobody has what you want? 
PLEASE tell me you meant to say "blackmail"!
That makes perfect sense! And it explains what Willie Mays did when he traveled in time. He changed history so that a new currency was adopted!
His card was the highest denomination, of course.
What I'd really like to hear an explanation for, is that if the Federation really does have no money, then how do they deal with those who refuse to work? In a society where anyone can get anything and live anywhere, you can bet (ha!) that there'd still be people who sit around all day doing nothing.
About the only thing I can think of is this: Perhaps boredom would overcome laziness.
@Jedimaster: I like that quote.
Canonically, it's not the Federation that has no money, it's humanity. Perhaps, without being part of a larger whole like the Federation, humanity wouldn't have the luxury of going that route.
I'm not following.
Earth is just another Federation member world, after all. Sure, the capital buildings and Starfleet Command are there, but it's not like Earth's a special case. And there must be hundreds of thousands of aliens living on Earth. So how could humans have no money, but not the rest of those beings?
And if Earth is such a paradise, then why would anyone want to leave it?
And if Earth is such a paradise, then why would anyone want to leave it?
To seek the unknown, adventure, escape boredom... Let alone that one man's paradise can be another man's hell.
I think if everybody was allowed to do what they truly loved doing there would be less people who just sat around doing nothing.
They would likely still exist and I can imagine that people like Picard might not like to talk about them....
Well, what is just as canon as "In the Cards" is that the Federation has a monetary unit called the 'credit.' We may want to keep that in mind.
As for humans: Given how many aliens are living on Earth, and how many humans live on other Federation worlds, I don't see how the no-money thing could apply ONLY to them.
