The same way the amount you win at monopoly seems to have meaning while you're playing. It's just monopoly money though.
Another take on "there's no money in the 24th century"
- Thread starter hxclespaulplayer
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I think it has to do with education. Plus the society likely doesn't need much work to function, with one hour of work per day per individual on average they would probably do just fine, so given the people who are willing to work a whopping three hours a day, they can afford a few loafing around.
Interestingly enough, it is James Kirk himself that rejects that kind of idle and stagnant existence.
TOS Season 1 "This Side of Paradise"
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001420/?ref_=tt_trv_quDr. McCoy: Well, that's the second time man's been thrown out of paradise.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/?ref_=tt_trv_quCaptain Kirk: No, no, Bones, this time we walked out on our own. Maybe we weren't meant for paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through, struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute. We must march to the sound of drums.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
The Apple is an example of Kirk overstepping his bounds. The people seemed happy, they didn't ask for anybody's help and as a matter of fact they had lived this way for millenia. So Kirk decided that he would change all that and force these people to a life where they'll all be dead in a few decades. And BTW, this was a society without money.
You misunderstood my question. You said that it was made quite obvious that they don't play for keeps, when was it made quite obvious? Which episode?
The Apple is an example of Kirk employing self protection against an agressor.
Vaal engaged in kidnapping, assault, murder and attacking a starship peacefully in orbit (act of war?). Vaal had the ability to speak to Kirk through the village chief, and Kirk did try to speak to Vaal directly.
If Vaal had wanted the landing party to leave, openly communicating with Kirk and telling him to leave should have been the first step.
There's an instance when Riker bets Data that he'll find a card in the deck and makes Data select the card for him. He wins the bet, but then Data explains how he did. To show that he's the winner of the bet (even though he isn't, but that's another story) Data pulls all the chips on the table in a pile before him, regardless if which are his and which are others, as a symbolic gesture of victory.
It's obvious that he wouldn't have done that if the chips represented real money.
The Apple is an example of Kirk employing self protection against an agressor.
Vaal engaged in kidnapping, assault, murder and attacking a starship peacefully in orbit (act of war?). Vaal had the ability to speak to Kirk through the village chief, and Kirk did try to speak to Vaal directly.
If Vaal had wanted the landing party to leave, openly communicating with Kirk and telling him to leave should have been the first step.
Kirk had the option to try to weaken Vaal to a point where it would have let them leave and then let the people feed Vaal at their convenience.
Instead he decided to destroy a way of life that had lasted for millenia because it didn't meet his approval.
That's about the worst kind of violation of the prime directive that a starship captain can commit.
Not to mention that as he said later, starfleet officers take an oath to DIE rather than violate the prime directive.
Kirk couldn't be guiltier in that episode.
Didn't you just argue against the entire premise of the TOS episode "The Apple?" Which is a separate episode from the one I quoted. "This Side of Paradise" is the one I quoted; it's the one with the spore flowers. So right there are two episodes where Kirk rejects this 'fundamental Star Trek principle' of an idyllic society.
The only consistency in Star Trek is its inconsistency.
Here endeth the lesson.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
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What lesson? That Kirk violated the prime directive and should have been stripped of command for it, or worse?
Didn't you just argue against the entire premise of the TOS episode "The Apple?" Which is a separate episode from the one I quoted. "This Side of Paradise" is the one I quoted; it's the one with the spore flowers. So right there are two episodes where Kirk rejects this 'fundamental Star Trek principle' of an idyllic society.
The only consistency in Star Trek is its inconsistency.
Here endeth the lesson.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
That lesson?
The lesson is that Star Trek canon has many inconsistencies.
You say the above and then either disregard or argue against canon evidence that you don't agree with. Like below with "The Apple."
As demonstrated in this thread there are a plethora of references to either commerce or economics all through Star Trek.
Whoa Nellie
Star trek is not just the federation, so unless you can be more specific here. Your remark doesn't prove anything.
Kirk violating a law and getting away with it doesn't necessary means an inconsistency. It can also mean that Kirk isn't just honest about it in his log as has been said in the episode of Voyager Flashbacks, in it is said that Sulu falsified his log on one occasion and it is implied that during Kirk's time it was a common practice.
Just off the top of my head and from my previous post.
Captain's Holiday (3rd season TNG) Vash scamming Sovak because it was the only way she could afford to get to Risa.
(Risa is a Federation planet.)
Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered Country - Scotty had bought a boat.
Star Trek 7 Generations - Kirk mentions he had sold his house years ago.
Edited to add: Voyager, Season 4 'The Gift': Captain Janeway tells how Tuvok's meditation lamp was purchased from a Vulcan master who doubled the price when he saw their Starfleet insignia.
As I said I see the whole "No money" issue as a bunch of idealistic, happy happy horse shit that is tossed aside by the writers whenever it is inconvenient for the plot or gets in the way of some fun banter.
You need to check your Star Trek canon better. My original quote is from "This Side of Paradise" Kirk could not have broken the prime directive because the colony on Omicron Ceti III was a Federation colony. His mission was to catalog the destruction of the planet due to deadly radiation. The Enterprise was surprised to find the Federation colonist the only living animal life on the planet. The colonist had come under the influence of the spores in a certain type of plant.
You brought up "The Apple", a completely different episode. And as pointed out by T'Girl, Kirk in that episode was responding to an attack on his ship.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
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Just off the top of my head and from my previous post.
Captain's Holiday (3rd season TNG) Vash scamming Sovak because it was the only way she could afford to get to Risa.
(Risa is a Federation planet.)
Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered Country - Scotty had bought a boat.
Star Trek 7 Generations - Kirk mentions he had sold his house years ago.
You need to check your Star Trek canon better. My original quote is from "This Side of Paradise" Kirk could not have broken the prime directive because the colony on Omicron Ceti III was a Federation colony. His mission was to catalog the destruction of the planet due to deadly radiation. The Enterprise was surprised to find the Federation colonist the only living animal life on the planet. The colonist had come under the influence of the spores in a certain type of plant.
You brought up "The Apple", a completely different episode. And as pointed out by T'Girl, Kirk in that episode was responding to an attack on his ship.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
Ok, let's clarify a few things here.
First the attack on Kirk's ship would never have happened if he hadn't landed uninvited on that planet.
Basically you are excusing a thief that enters illegally in a house and then kills its owner under the excuse that the owner was firing on him, TO DEFEND HIS HOUSE!!!
Even under common law, Kirk would be judged a criminal, under the dictates of the prime directive though it's even worse!!! He had no right to land on this planet, he had no right to destroy Vaal, thus annihilating a way of life that had existed for millenia. He had no right to violate the prime directive. Period!
"The Apple" was your straw man. As I have stated multiple times the episode I was quoting was "This Side of Paradise." You have yet to address any of my examples from canon.
Again, in "This Side of Paradise" Kirk could not have broken the prime directive because the colony on Omicron Ceti III was a Federation colony. His mission was to catalog the destruction of the planet due to deadly radiation. The Enterprise was surprised to find the Federation colonist the only living animal life on the planet. The colonist had come under the influence of the spores in a certain type of plant. Kirk in this episode rejects that kind of idle and stagnant existence.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
Just off the top of my head and from my previous post.
Captain's Holiday (3rd season TNG) Vash scamming Sovak because it was the only way she could afford to get to Risa.
(Risa is a Federation planet.)
Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered Country - Scotty had bought a boat.
Star Trek 7 Generations - Kirk mentions he had sold his house years ago.
Voyager, Season 4 'The Gift': Captain Janeway tells how Tuvok's meditation lamp was purchased from a Vulcan master who doubled the price when he saw their Starfleet insignia.
As I said I see the whole "No money" issue as a bunch of idealistic, happy happy horse shit that is tossed aside by the writers whenever it is inconvenient for the plot or gets in the way of some fun banter
Again, in "This Side of Paradise" Kirk could not have broken the prime directive because the colony on Omicron Ceti III was a Federation colony. His mission was to catalog the destruction of the planet due to deadly radiation. The Enterprise was surprised to find the Federation colonist the only living animal life on the planet. The colonist had come under the influence of the spores in a certain type of plant. Kirk in this episode rejects that kind of idle and stagnant existence.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
Oh boy !!!
Kirk was ordered by Starfleet to go to the planet, investigate the unusual energy reading and he was specifically ordered to contact the natives. How exactly was Kirk violating the prime directive?
We'v seen before that Starfleet contacts "primitive" cultures, so it is allowed.
So why did Vaal warn them off, the antennas in Akuta's skull show that Vaal is capable of transmitting signals.
I'm sorry, what was Kirk stealing?
Akuta invited the landing party into the village, they were presented with a house and food.
Your forgetting something, prior to the attack on Vaal ...
they tried to leave.
Under common law, unless posted not to, you are allowed by law to come on to someone land, advance on the house and knock on the door.
If the property owner shot you while you were walking up the drive, they (and not you) are in the wrong.
Again Kirk was issued orders by Starfleet, Kirk mentions this in the first scene. What dictates are you referring to?
Why not ... based on what?
And just so we're clear, Kirk flipped the circuit breaker of a machine. That's all.
Other than no longer tossing baskets full of exploding rocks down a hole in the ground, what part of the natives lives was annihilated?
It's Starfleet rule, and it was Starfleet that send him to the planet.
It's not like Kirk went there on his own initiative.
So apparently he did have "the right."
It was also a society without sex, now that Vaal is gone, they can screw like bunnies.
Yeah, the federation orders one of its captains to violate one of its most fundamental rules and this for no good reason. I mean, whatever happened on the planet unless it endangered other worlds (which it didn't ) was the exclusive business of the planet's inhabitants, unless they specifically asked for help which they didn't.Oh boy !!!
Kirk was ordered by Starfleet to go to the planet, investigate the unusual energy reading and he was specifically ordered to contact the natives. How exactly was Kirk violating the prime directive?
We'v seen before that Starfleet contacts "primitive" cultures, so it is allowed.
So why did Vaal warn them off, the antennas in Akuta's skull show that Vaal is capable of transmitting signals.
I'm sorry, what was Kirk stealing?
Akuta invited the landing party into the village, they were presented with a house and food.
Your forgetting something, prior to the attack on Vaal ...
they tried to leave.
Under common law, unless posted not to, you are allowed by law to come on to someone land, advance on the house and knock on the door.
If the property owner shot you while you were walking up the drive, they (and not you) are in the wrong.
Again Kirk was issued orders by Starfleet, Kirk mentions this in the first scene. What dictates are you referring to?
Why not ... based on what?
And just so we're clear, Kirk flipped the circuit breaker of a machine. That's all.
Other than no longer tossing baskets full of exploding rocks down a hole in the ground, what part of the natives lives was annihilated?
It's Starfleet rule, and it was Starfleet that send him to the planet.
It's not like Kirk went there on his own initiative.
So apparently he did have "the right."
in a much worse situation, Picard wouldn't lift a finger to help out a dying planet, TWICE! And all because of the prime directive.
This whole episode is absurd.
Strickly speaking the order came from Starfleet, not the Federation.
A scoutshuip apparently had picked up Vaal's emissions prior to the episode.
To seek out new life and new civilizations.
And given the lifestyle of the native, exactly how would they have "asked for help?"
There is evidense that the prime directive isn't craved in stone, nor is it without exceptions. Friday's Child shows that a non-technological people can be contacted and interacted with and can be traded with, young McCoy was in uniform during his time on the planet.
Elaan of Troyius has the Federation engaging in diplomatic relations with a civilization that is overtly pre-warp technology.
Now if you think about it, there's no indication that the prime directive applies to Starfleet Command, only ship captains and crews. So if Starfleet command orders a ship captain to contact a non-technological group of natives, how would that be a violation of the prime directive in the least?
As I pointed out earlier, it is Starfleet's general order, so they can suspend it whenever they choose to. Or redefine a previous interpetation.
Beaming down without an engraved invitation is obviously not a part of the prime directives prohibitions, doing so is in fact the standard mode of operations.
Strickly speaking the order came from Starfleet, not the Federation.
A scoutshuip apparently had picked up Vaal's emissions prior to the episode.
To seek out new life and new civilizations.
And given the lifestyle of the native, exactly how would they have "asked for help?"
There is evidense that the prime directive isn't craved in stone, nor is it without exceptions. Friday's Child shows that a non-technological people can be contacted and interacted with and can be traded with, young McCoy was in uniform during his time on the planet.
Elaan of Troyius has the Federation engaging in diplomatic relations with a civilization that is overtly pre-warp technology.
Now if you think about it, there's no indication that the prime directive applies to Starfleet Command, only ship captains and crews. So if Starfleet command orders a ship captain to contact a non-technological group of natives, how would that be a violation of the prime directive in the least?
As I pointed out earlier, it is Starfleet's general order, so they can suspend it whenever they choose to. Or redefine a previous interpetation.
Beaming down without an engraved invitation is obviously not a part of the prime directives prohibitions, doing so is in fact the standard mode of operations.
But this is a clear violation. These people had lived like they did for millenia, they were minding their own business on their own planet. They weren't threatening any other world. What right did have Kirk and starfleet to intrude on their world? The prime directive clearly states that prewarp civilizations which these were are to be left alone, even if they are endangered as picard wouldn't lift a finger to help not one but TWO worlds in danger of total extinction. Starfleet or no Starfleet, Kirk's actions here are totally inexcusable. He interfered and destroyed a way of life, one that was only asking to be left alone. The fact that it was suppressed because it didn't meet Kirk's approval, has a name, it's called fascism.
