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another question about star wars ep.III

The novelization by Matt Stover (which I don't really like) implies that the scarred face is Palpatine's true face and there is a sequence just before the fight against Yoda in the Galactic Senate where Palp's muses that he has missed his face...
Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Wasn't Palps from Naboo, just like Padme?

There shouldn't have been any scarred face in ROTS. It should have been the gradual result of Dark Side use, like Smeagol becoming Gollum. The instantaneous transition was dumb, plain and simple. We get it, George, ugly people bad, pretty people good. Pretty people with red eyes, not so good. And if you think we're four years old, why did you show us such a vicious and disturbing scene of Anakin's sinking into lava, with his face catching fire?

Screw it. I'm through with ROTS.
 
Just cause Palpatine said he was from Naboo doesnt mean its true. Maybe he was alot older than anyone knew and had immigrated from somewhere else.
Its obvious that palps threw the fight. He was summoning Anakin to rescue him and if Anakin had arrived to see Paps standing over Maces' dead body and all the rest of the jedi he had just slain I dont think it would have helped turn anakin to the dark side. That and he purposly fries himself a 2nd time with the lighting. What did he think it was gonna get thru the 2nd time?
 
I choose to believe that Mace really did beat Sidious. How insanely risky would it have been to throw the fight with Mace, the best Jedi duelist alive using Vapaad dark-side-tinged techniques? How does he know Mace won't just kill him, drunk with the dark power he just used to beat him, anguished over the death of Kit Fisto and the rest? How does he know Anakin won't get there five seconds late? How does he know Anakin will save him? I also don't like the idea of the lightning revealing his "true" face unless its metaphorically.
 
Nah. Mace was one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of all time. He kicked Palpatine's ass. Palpy just took advantage of his situation and used it to manipulate Anakin.

Palpatine had studied all of the lightsaber combat forms according to the novel.

Even the one Windu invented himself? And studying is not always the same thing as mastering.
 
Mace nearly beat him. Palpatine was a planner, but there's too much chance involved and too much at stake. Unless Palpatine can see the future entirely, then he's nigh-unbeatable...except for some reason during the second Death Star battle. Over-confidence was Palpatine's weakness, wasn't it? That's why get got disfigured and why he wound-up getting the shaft.

As originally filmed, Anakin was to be there the whole time, with Palpatine using Anakin's lightsaber.

Anakin turning was almost given, killing Mace before he arrived or not. Palpatine knew that when Anakin doesn't attack after Palps reveals he was a sith and Anakin buys that "i can save Padme" crap.

We never saw any Jedi beat a Sith without that Jedi displaying negative emotions, angered young Obi-Wan in TPM, arrogant Anakin beating Dooku and infuriated Luke beating Vader. Perhaps embracing the dark side gives Jedi the edge to beat a Sith. Did Qui-Gonn sacrifice himself so that Kenobi would have the anger to beat Maul?

Had Mace won and killed Palpatine, there was a strong chance that Mace would've turned to the dark side.
 
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Mace nearly beat him. Palpatine was a planner, but there's too much chance involved and too much at stake. Unless Palpatine can see the future entirely, then he's nigh-unbeatable...except for some reason during the second Death Star battle. Over-confidence was Palpatine's weakness, wasn't it? That's why get got disfigured and why he wound-up getting the shaft.

As originally filmed, Anakin was to be there the whole time, with Palpatine using Anakin's lightsaber.

Anakin turning was almost given, killing Mace before he arrived or not. Palpatine knew that when Anakin doesn't attack after Palps reveals he was a sith and Anakin buys that "i can save Padme" crap.

We never saw any Jedi beat a Sith without that Jedi displaying negative emotions, angered young Obi-Wan in TPM, arrogant Anakin beating Dooku and infuriated Luke beating Vader. Perhaps embracing the dark side gives Jedi the edge to beat a Sith. Did Qui-Gonn sacrifice himself so that Kenobi would have the anger to beat Maul?

Had Mace won and killed Palpatine, there was a strong chance that Mace would've turned to the dark side.

"I AM the Senate, Mother****er!!!"

In the novelization, which lightly refs another story, Mace had been warned once that the Sith were already in control, so his rage and fury at Anakin telling him about Palpatine was if anything, even greater. Yoda would never have sent that party to confront Palpatine, IMO. He would have urged caution against one who had hidden so well for so long. He also would have had someone literally sit on Anakin. Mace should have clocked him, if he wanted him to stay put. Expecting Ani to obey orders in that instance was the stupidest thing since Angel and crew confronted Evil Cordelia w/o checking where Connor was first. Also, Mace had discussed the Council taking the reins of power before even knowing who Palpatine was.

My take on the last fight is : If Palps was never taking any risk, then much of his planning and patience was unneeded. He was a huge risk-taker, albeit after knowing the gaming field intimately and tweaking it not a little. Who's to say how much he really did? Even if neither he nor Plageus had anything to do with Ani's birth, could he have caused Shmi and her son to be so indebted as to be enslaved, thus ensuring a bitter chosen one?

But what gave victory to Palpatine in the PT wrecked him in the OT. He seemed to lose sight of the fact that, in the PT, he ran both sides of the chessboard, and had been an intimate part of his embittered target's life perhaps from the very start. But he knew nothing of Luke at least for a long while, even if later EU novels retcon it to earlier than ANH (They haven't that I know of). Luke was anxious to move on, but he was never a slave. And I would call Luke a moaner rather than a whiner. To me, a moaner is impatient, but not thoughtless of others. Robot Chicken SW2 aside, I'm pretty sure he realized that Leia had lost her homeworld while he mourned Ben. A whiner like Anakin is much more me-oriented. Luke never saw himself as the be-all of the Rebellion, far from it, and no one save Leia ever told him he was indispensible, or words to that effect.
Finally, while Palps plan over Endor was brilliant, he didn't secretly run the Rebellion as well, and Luke had grown up fearful of or despising him, not looking to him as Ani did.

Palps rolled the dice twice, winning big the first time, albeit with magnets and levers around the table, and getting snake-eyes the second, then being bounced from the club.
 
There was a theory running around the 'net back when Ep. III came out that Shmi was actually Plaguies (sp) lover and that Anakin was his son. Or that Shmi was merely the incubator for a child created by Plaguies and his experiments in controling the creation of life through the force.

As for Palps vs Windu: I've always taken it as Palps putting on a show for Anakin. If push came to shove, Palps could have won. But having the leader of the Jedi council strike down Anakin's father figure, moments after barking about taking control of the senate, tempered with Anakin's freak out about Padme possibly dying, was just too good of a chance to pass up. Palps plays possom for a few moments, Anakin sees what he sees and it cements Anakin's switch over to the dark side.
 
Not only does it cheapen Windu's character by having Palpatine throw the fight even before it started, but it makes the entire scene less than a footnote in the overall story.

Palpatine facing a real opponent who could and would have beatened him, only to outsmart him at the very last moment, not only maintains Windu's bad-assery but makes Palpatine all the more amazing in his craftiness and intelligence.

Why anyone would even want the former over the latter, let alone assume that's what we saw on screen (which we certailny didn't) is beyond me.
 
Not only does it cheapen Windu's character by having Palpatine throw the fight even before it started, but it makes the entire scene less than a footnote in the overall story.

Palpatine facing a real opponent who could and would have beatened him, only to outsmart him at the very last moment, not only maintains Windu's bad-assery but makes Palpatine all the more amazing in his craftiness and intelligence.

Why anyone would even want the former over the latter, let alone assume that's what we saw on screen (which we certailny didn't) is beyond me.

Anakin : You destroyed Master Windu so easily! Wait--you could have done that at any time?

Palps : No--only when it was funny.
 
If memory serves me correctly, in the recent animated Clone Wars movie - the events of which precede ROTS of course - we saw Sidious' face in a holographic communication, and it was very much the warped and disfigured face we were introduced to in ROTJ.

But...the majority of fan sentiment regarding the Clone Wars movie being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised if some people just plain decided that didn't count... :lol:
 
I just rewatched the animated 05 Clone Wars series and holo-Sidious definitely had some nasty evil teeth in that, but that whole series (while amazing) was a bit of an exaggeration on canon.
 
I'm inclined to think that Mace was perhaps the only Jedi aside from Yoda who could have stood up as well against Sidious. I think Anakin was also tormented by how Palpatine goaded him into killing Dooku when he was already helpless, and he saw Mace seemingly doing the same thing.
 
Or that Shmi was merely the incubator for a child created by Plaguies and his experiments in controling the creation of life through the force.

Having recently rewatched TPM, there is now a bit of creepiness in QG and OW marveling over how high Anakin's midichlorine count was, it used to be "cool, very gifted," now it has the aura of being unnatural and hence wrong, although Lucas holds that Anakin was created by the (good) Force itself.
 
Personally, I'd have omitted the whole divine conception/chosen one thing. It wasn't really necessary to the plot at all.
 
Personally, I'd have omitted the whole divine conception/chosen one thing. It wasn't really necessary to the plot at all.


I agree with you on that one. I don't think it meant that much to the average citizen of the republic, we live under a empire or we live under a republic.
 
Not only does it cheapen Windu's character by having Palpatine throw the fight even before it started, but it makes the entire scene less than a footnote in the overall story.

Palpatine facing a real opponent who could and would have beatened him, only to outsmart him at the very last moment, not only maintains Windu's bad-assery but makes Palpatine all the more amazing in his craftiness and intelligence.

Why anyone would even want the former over the latter, let alone assume that's what we saw on screen (which we certailny didn't) is beyond me.

Anakin : You destroyed Master Windu so easily! Wait--you could have done that at any time?

Palps : No--only when it was funny.

Palps: Pl-la-la-la-la-la-ease join the dark side!
 
Personally, I'd have omitted the whole divine conception/chosen one thing. It wasn't really necessary to the plot at all.


I agree with you on that one. I don't think it meant that much to the average citizen of the republic, we live under a empire or we live under a republic.

But his intention was to show how groups, circumstances, individuals all have a big impact on the fate of the whole galaxy.
 
And that's fine, but you don't need to have a Chosen One or a prophecy to do that. Anakin could have just been a very powerful Jedi and still accomplished the same role in the saga. The prophecy was just fluff to make him seem super-important compared to everyone else.
 
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