another DOOMSDAY?

[RobertScorpio]

Just got watching DOOMSDAY MACHINE (the pre-master/CGI version)...and I got to wondering. Had Kirk made it off the Constellation, near the begining, would he have given up command as SPOCK had? Decker was the higher ranking of the two..so could have taken command of the ship, even if Kirk had been there?

Rob

 

[Warped9]

Just got watching DOOMSDAY MACHINE (the pre-master/CGI version)...and I got to wondering. Had Kirk made it off the Constellation, near the begining, would he have given up command as SPOCK had? Decker was the higher ranking of the two..so could have taken command of the ship, even if Kirk had been there?

Rob

Difficult to say. If Kirk had been aboard the Enterprise Decker might not have tried to assume command given Kirk's forceful presence. And even if he had the instant Decker seemed off the rails Kirk would have had him relieved just as he did when he ordered Spock to do it.

 

[Vonstadt]

Especially since Bones had already told Kirk that Decker was in shock when they first found him. The Captain clearly has some kind of 'personal authority as captain of the Enterpise' as when he used it to order Spock to relieve Decker.

Meaning he took full responsibility if there was an inquiry later. I am guessing as Master of the ship and the fact Bones preliminary findings were Decker was emotionally unstable would be enough for Kirk to stop Decker's strafing runs on the Doomsday Machine earlier on.

Vons

 

[FormerLurker]

Considering the Enterprise is Kirk's ship to begin with, Decker wouldn't have been able to take over, even as a higher ranking officer. It's Kirk's ship, he has the final say about who's in charge.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Considering the Enterprise is Kirk's ship to begin with, Decker wouldn't have been able to take over, even as a higher ranking officer. It's Kirk's ship, he has the final say about who's in charge.

Not so sure about that. Because he didn't have that authority while aboard the constellation. And Spock was captain of the Enterprise in KHAN. He told kirk that if they were to go in active duty, the senior officer (kird the admiral) would have to take command, or something to that effect.

Rob

 

[Timo]

A senior officer could take command of the overall mission of a naval vessel today. He wouldn't be able to override the CO of that vessel on matters directly relating to the operating of said ship, though. Say, he could order a near-suicidal run through narrows straddled by enemy anti-ship missile batteries, if that's what best served the strategic aims of the navy, but he couldn't tell the CO to make that run over sandbars, or at a speed that would make the last surviving turbine tear apart. It would be up to the skipper to manage such issues.

In "DDM", I trust Starfleet would side with Decker on the necessity of stopping the planet-eating beast even at the cost of casualties to Kirk's starship, or ultimately the loss of said ship. Kirk couldn't refuse Decker's orders on the basis that they endanger his ship, as Kirk's oath was to die for the 23rd century equivalents of king and country. However, the two could argue the wisdom of Decker's approach literally till doomsday, and if Kirk's argument prevailed, Starfleet might defend his refusal to follow Decker's not-so-smart plan.

As for Spock being so eager to hand over the ship to Kirk in ST2, I'd say it had less to do with Starfleet regulations and more to do with friends, egos, and Kirk's birthday... Spock was theoretically allowed to relinquish command, so he readily did.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[RobertScorpio]

A senior officer could take command of the overall mission of a naval vessel today. He wouldn't be able to override the CO of that vessel on matters directly relating to the operating of said ship, though. Say, he could order a near-suicidal run through narrows straddled by enemy anti-ship missile batteries, if that's what best served the strategic aims of the navy, but he couldn't tell the CO to make that run over sandbars, or at a speed that would make the last surviving turbine tear apart. It would be up to the skipper to manage such issues.

In "DDM", I trust Starfleet would side with Decker on the necessity of stopping the planet-eating beast even at the cost of casualties to Kirk's starship, or ultimately the loss of said ship. Kirk couldn't refuse Decker's orders on the basis that they endanger his ship, as Kirk's oath was to die for the 23rd century equivalents of king and country. However, the two could argue the wisdom of Decker's approach literally till doomsday, and if Kirk's argument prevailed, Starfleet might defend his refusal to follow Decker's not-so-smart plan.

As for Spock being so eager to hand over the ship to Kirk in ST2, I'd say it had less to do with Starfleet regulations and more to do with friends, egos, and Kirk's birthday... Spock was theoretically allowed to relinquish command, so he readily did.

Timo Saloniemi

True about SPOCK in TREK 2, it was for other reasons than protocol. But its clear from that exchange that the protocol does exist.

Rob

 

[Scout101]

General idea would be that Kirk could do what he wanted, but if it didn't work out, he'd be finished as an officer. Decker outranked him, and could on those grounds take over, but at that point, it's more a matter of crew loyalty. If they choose to be strictly by-the-book, Kirk is sunk. Otherwise, Kirk can make his call, have Decker restrained, and then if it works out, he's good, and court-martialed if he's wrong.

Decker having been declared unfit at the start of the episode makes it all moot, though, as he's off duty at that point, and not able to take over.