Another comic book format

[westwords2020]

I guess I am repeating a proposal to cut comic book prices as measured by the price per page and the cover price without upsetting the work schedules of the existing writing/art teams.
The basic story would remain 22 pages long, it is just that I would package them into a larger book of 104 pages plus cover. There would be 88 pages, four 32 page equivalents, one cover for the four and a savings of 12 pages of cover stock and 24 pages of interior paper. Allowing for a cover and a contents page, this package would have eighteen ad pages vice the current thirteen.
The target price would be $7.99 if these savings were enough and if a major company had 60 titles selling a 60 X $2.99 it would cost around $180 to purchase a month's output in the 32 page format vice the
60 X $7.99 or around $120 with 15 books having the content of the entire line.
The big question is such a price achievable or not. Higher, lower, or just plain impractible? What do you think?

It puzzles me that Viz can publish 360 b/w pages of art, admittedly without the costs of full color production/printing on a cheaper paper stock and apparently with some kind of payment to the creator back in Japan for reprinting their stories in the US which also requires translators to convert Japaneese lettering to English.
How do they do it?

 

[Mistral]

"Magic dust, man."

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

I had a similar idea, though my idea was more 66 pages of story (3 issues worth) rather than 4. But yes, I'm a strong supporter of a new format.

the simple fact is, the 22 page "floppy" format is the format of children. It's tailor made to a KID'S ATTENTION LENGTH. More and more, adults find it like watching 1/5 an episode of LOST. Imagine how frustrating that would be!

It's just not enough content to give most people a fill.

If you think about it, NO MEDIA THAT SHORT has a mass audience that isn't DWARFED by longer versions of the same content. Everybody would much rather watch a 45 minute battlestar galactica than a 2 minute webisodde, short stories are nowhere near the industry novels are, 10 minute TV shows are not some big hit.

It makes no sense to continue to write adult stories in a kiddie format, especially since every damn adult writer needs at least 4 issues just to let their story unfold naturally.

 

[westwords2020]

If we bundle Superman's books which would fit the 88 availible art/story pages and have them deal with a single main storyline, the book would not be in the kiddie format but a single long story. Wonder Woman could be a lead feature with 44 pages while having two 22 page backups. A similar approach might be taken with the various Batman titles; have the Dark Knight as lead feature and other books as backups. Maybeye 66 pages is enough; I don't know but the 32 pager can't last forever with all the price increases.

 

[Bad Bishop]

I guess I am repeating a proposal to cut comic book prices as measured by the price per page and the cover price without upsetting the work schedules of the existing writing/art teams.
The basic story would remain 22 pages long, it is just that I would package them into a larger book of 104 pages plus cover. There would be 88 pages, four 32 page equivalents, one cover for the four and a savings of 12 pages of cover stock and 24 pages of interior paper. Allowing for a cover and a contents page, this package would have eighteen ad pages vice the current thirteen.
The target price would be $7.99 if these savings were enough and if a major company had 60 titles selling a 60 X $2.99 it would cost around $180 to purchase a month's output in the 32 page format vice the
60 X $7.99 or around $120 with 15 books having the content of the entire line.

I think this would be enough to drive a whole bunch of comic book shops out of business and throw the comic publishing industry into recession.

If you have these huge books then the customer has fewer choices. Who wants to pay $7.99 for 22 pages of SUPERMAN plus all kinds of filler? Why is that better than SUPERMAN and SPIDER-MAN (or other titles) at $2.99 apiece, leaving a couple of bucks that can go toward a third item?

For the average customer who's concerned about bills he has to pay, it's easier to cut back slightly on one or two books per week when they're still $2.99. The giant $7.99 books might lead too many customers to give comics up altogether.

 

[westwords2020]

I am afraid that further price increses of the 32 pagers would price themselves out oh the market. As for the big books, it is not necessary to limit the lead feature to 22 pages or 1/4 of the art pages, the lead feature could be 44 pages long with two 22 pages each from individual books that would be bundled. I think 1/2 of the book going to the lead feature might be salable depending on what books are the backup features.

In the case of Superman, it could be LSH and Supergirl, both successful.
As for the Batman titles, the many books here could either be bundled with the Batman/Detective/Dark Knight at 44 pages each with the backups. A title like Adventure comics might be an anthology of _Successful books on their own with established fan bases.
I'm hoping these hypotheitical books could succeed where the cheaper, reprint Spiderman book of 104 pages (94 art pages) reportedly failed. There is also the possiblity of using magazine sizing of 8 1/2 by 11 inches which Marvel also tried.
I had the newstand market in mind as the racks could probably not carry all sixty books that might be published but could stock fifteen books.

sales increased with the new format, the comc shops might do okay along with better newstands sales, I hope...

 

[Vanyel]

How would such a change affect comic book stories? Main stories lines are usually separated by filler stories. The filler stories may have reference to the big story, but are independent of the main story thread.

 

[JoeZhang]

What's a comicbook shop? is it one of those dirty places with unhelpful staff and loud music?

I buy trades in nice clean bookshops

 

[ancient]

Um, isn't this proposal essentially to print trades only. Or rather half-length trades?

I am a casual comics fan. My whole collection consists of TPB format. I have only four 22-pg things: One I bought out of nostalga, One for the heck of it in a line I never continued to follow, and two were just freebies I glanced over and shoved somewhere out of sight. Some sort of '90s X-Men nonesense.

So people who don't like the 22 pg deal already have their alternative.

 

[Mr Light]

I think what they should do is just shrink the size of the page. Same number of pages, same story, same art, just slightly smaller. Less cost.

For example, the Dark Horse Omnibus trades are at slightly reduced size versus a normal comic size, and I don't think they look shrunken/deformed/lessened at all.

And the problem with moving to a "trade only" format is that it will greatly reduce the impulse buy of a new title. Why should I spend $15 on a brand new comic I've never heard of? What if I hate it?

 

[westwords2020]

The bundling success would depend on cancelled popular 32 pagers incorporated as backup features along with the popularity of the lead feature.
Of course you would need two art teams to grind out 44 page stories each month.
Another possiblity is a 128 page format that would have 110 art pages and 66 pages would be alloted to the lead or the lead could remain at 44 pages while three canceled successful books would form the backups. This format offers savings of four covers printing and 32 pages interior.
A digest format might be considered as a cost reduction feature, maybeye, if the art pages still looked good in that format.

 

[westwords2020]

Lacking any data to go on I proposed my 104 and 128 page comics. I envisioned having lead features that were successful books in 32 page format. The backups would also have been good sales performers so a giant book with 110 art pages would be matching lead and backups by popularity and previous sales. Also, to lesson any initial sticker shock, conversion would take place gradually at one book per month. And there is no real reason why magazine based sizing of digest format might work but would the art look good when shrunk down to digest size. Oh well, it was an idea.

 

[westwords2020]

Marvel is going with reprint magazines that cost enough for newstands to desire to carry them and the magazine format will be 8.5 by 11 inches like other magazines so no need for spinner racks to fuss over.
I would like to see original material in magazine format and would go for 128 pages of it while setting a page count of 128 or more with 120 pages being the standard number of art pages with 48 pages for main feature and 24 page backups chosen for their sales strength.
As for the 32 pager, it should die as the costs and benefits are getting worse and not better with further price increasesws to happen soon I think.

 

[westwords2020]

The page count for the lead feature would be 44 pages or 40% of the 110 pages total. The backups would normally be a successful 32 page book or in some cases a character tryout or miniseries. The $7.99 was a suggested price equal to the standard price of a paperback book. I will ask if anyone reading this thread might know if my 128 pager/110 art pages could be produced at that price point? With the equivalent of five books worth of art for $7.99 it might have a niche as the 32 pager costs $14.95 to deliver the same content.

 

[Neroon]

Although I appreciate the enthusiasm you have for this project, I must ask you to wait until someone else posts activity in this thread before you post any more about the subject. Otherwise, it's not exactly considered kosher here. We're not trying to be killjoys here, but it is the way things are done on the TrekBBS.

If you have any questions, please feel free to PM myself or one of the other SFF forum moderators: JKTim or Spaceman Spiff.

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

If you have these huge books then the customer has fewer choices. Who wants to pay $7.99 for 22 pages of SUPERMAN plus all kinds of filler? Why is that better than SUPERMAN and SPIDER-MAN (or other titles) at $2.99 apiece, leaving a couple of bucks that can go toward a third item?

Good point, particularly as SUPERMAN and SPIDER-MAN have different publishers. I think you are right - the superhero mainstream doesn't seem right for this syle of publiction.

 

[RJDiogenes]

This is not a bad idea, westwords; worthy of some experimenting, anyway. Actually, believe it or not, I had a similar idea back around 1979 when the industry was going through a bad patch. Also, books similar to what you describe were pretty normal for comics back in the 40s and 50s. I'd certainly be open to such a format.

I also don't know why they don't go back to cheaper paper and printing. The high quality interior paper and printing doesn't really improve the experience a lot, in my opinion, and can even be detrimental. The higher quality could be restricted to the TPBs.

I certainly hope there's some way to save comics as something more than a breeding ground for summer popcorn movies. They're a unique American art form; besides, I love them.

 

[firehawk12]

I'm guessing that they don't want to look cheap compared to the smaller companies that are willing to go with high quality paper.
And, of course, the other thing is that the colours would look pretty bad on that old school newsprint.

I think the single issue floppy as it stands is probably a dying breed though. As I mentioned in the Crossgen thread, there was an experiment where they put a month's worth of single issues into a manga/digest sized TPB. I think that could work if the issue is value for money and trying to maintain the monthly schedule. Otherwise, I dunno. Maybe there's a conversion rate between people who watch Spider-man 3 and people who then buy the weekly Spider-man books, but based on the monthly Diamond figures, it can't be that impactful.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I don't know. I don't think cheaper paper would really look any worse, and might even look better; personally, I don't think the glossy paper does the art any favors. Also, you've got the brand name, iconic characters and a better value. And they could always put more gorillas on the covers-- that always sells more books.

 

[firehawk12]

I guess the only thing we have to compare with now is newspaper... and, I dunno, the high quality paper makes the colours much more vibrant.
Now, if they do black and white books again, like the indie pubs...