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Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador kit!

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Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

First off, no one is compelled to accept Guenther's -- or anyone's -- word on what speculative technology might mean. You needn't correct me on that point because that wasn't my intended message. You wrote that "his work is no more canon than any other fan-produced work" and I attempted to qualify what you were saying by pointing out that he had done the official 1701-D plans and thus was in a somewhat better position than most producers of "fan work" to interpret a predecessor design, if for no other reason than time spent pondering the subject. It is speculative after all, and short of being based in some element of well-founded fact, it is pure opinion. As for your lengthy post above regarding radiator panels, I made the same mistake I made once before and posted an alternate explanation without reading what you wrote. HOWEVER, when I contrasted what Guenther did with exhaust, I was contrasting it with the Kimble/Probert terms for the Enterprise-class dorsal vents. Those were, IIRC, related to venting some exhaust from the the photon torpedo tubes. I wasn't referring to anything you wrote.

It's not that I didn't like what you wrote, only that it wasn't germane to what I was posting and I was hard pressed for time. But... now that I have read it I will admit that if the thing dissipates heat it must be a radiator, since radiation is the only form of heat transfer that can occur in a vacuum. I actually attempted to account for that possibility when I termed the things "vanes" but then went on to discuss Guenther's explanation. So much for being rushed.
zippy.gif
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Perhaps an explanation as to why the Excelsior needs the ribbed radiator is that massive amounts of heat/alpha radiation/technobabble is generated as a side-effect of the transwarp drive?
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Whatever a particular doohickey or thingamajig's fictitious function is, I'm getting a major kick out of watching this design evolve. :cool:
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

(Side note - the entire Western section of the ISS (consisting of the US main modules, with the Japanese experiment module and exterior platform, the Canadian truss structure, and the European Space Agency Columbus module), and the Russian side, are essentially two completely independent space stations, held together by a single dockign adaptor. It would be a trivial matter of undocking and disconnecting a handful of quick-connect harness junctions to split the ISS into a "NATO" and a "Warsaw Pact" side and have two totally independent stations in orbit!)
Click to expand...

That's not entirely true. The Russian side of the station holds ALL of the propulsion systems, the critical life support systems, and of course the escape craft. Joining the two originally independent designs (Freedom and Mir-2) allowed the Russians to use their side for station keeping and some science (which they're awesome at), letting the international space nerds concentrate in their specific lab modules. There actually was a gigantic study in the early part of this decade concerning the future of the station after 2015. If NASA gave up after their committment, the Russians could get along on their own by abandonning the international side. If the Russians gave up and stopped paying for their side, the whole thing would be a loss as there's no way to keep ISS in orbit without Zvezda (Zarya is US-owned, but doesn't have sufficient propulsion abilities to keep the whole thing aloft). It's in here somewhere:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=8

Mark
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Mark_Nguyen said:
(Side note - the entire Western section of the ISS (consisting of the US main modules, with the Japanese experiment module and exterior platform, the Canadian truss structure, and the European Space Agency Columbus module), and the Russian side, are essentially two completely independent space stations, held together by a single dockign adaptor. It would be a trivial matter of undocking and disconnecting a handful of quick-connect harness junctions to split the ISS into a "NATO" and a "Warsaw Pact" side and have two totally independent stations in orbit!)
Click to expand...

That's not entirely true. The Russian side of the station holds ALL of the propulsion systems, the critical life support systems, and of course the escape craft. Joining the two originally independent designs (Freedom and Mir-2) allowed the Russians to use their side for station keeping and some science (which they're awesome at), letting the international space nerds concentrate in their specific lab modules. There actually was a gigantic study in the early part of this decade concerning the future of the station after 2015. If NASA gave up after their committment, the Russians could get along on their own by abandonning the international side. If the Russians gave up and stopped paying for their side, the whole thing would be a loss as there's no way to keep ISS in orbit without Zvezda (Zarya is US-owned, but doesn't have sufficient propulsion abilities to keep the whole thing aloft). It's in here somewhere:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=8

Mark
Click to expand...

Wait-a-aminute... wasn't there a plan to put maneuvering thrusters at the ends of the truss? I definitely remember that in the full spec I read a couple of years ago.

And as for escape vehicles... there was a plan to use the twin Soyuz/Progress vehicles on the Russian side but there was a plan to have a funky-looking "lifting body" escape vessel on the US side. (I think it was just after the last election cycle that this got "indefinitely tabled.")

If you're interested... this is (was?) the design:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-38_Crew_Return_Vehicle

So there's still a PLAN to have escape vessels on the US side, we just don't have an approved design yet. And why should we as long as the Russians keep using their "falling ball bearing" recovery method? :rolleyes:

Basically, the way that this has worked is this: The US supported the Russian development effort and designed a batch of modules to produce on our own as well. The Russians, who amazingly enough aren't as hobbled by red tape as we are (go figure) went ahead and did it while our congress piddled around over funding it for ages.

The US side, if we ever get it complete, does have everythign necessary for a fully-functional station. The problem is, we haven't put up all our bits and pieces yet. There's a full module made up of nothing but life-support hardware that should be dropping off the universal docking adaptor... right at the junction between the airlock, the US lab module the truss support package and the Russian half. It's not up there yet. And the US habitation module would branch off from a hub docking adapter at the bottom of that module, right under the cupola.

At the end of the US lab module is another universal hub, with the centrifuge module above, the logistics module below, the EU Columbus module to the right and the Japanese module (with its add-on specialty test hardware) opposite the Columbus module.

As for what goes in the Russian side... they have their own hubs, their own lab modules (the contents of which were never made public), their own life support (which currently supports both sides, as you point out) and so forth. But if both sides were ever completely finished, they could split apart and be totally independent.

But you're absolutely right... as of the current state of the station, the US side is hobbled by lack of support and lots of quibbling by congressmen who have no idea about what they're quibbling. :mad:
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Huh... I always figured it was some sort of sensor array....
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Griffworks said:
Huh... I always figured it was some sort of sensor array....
Click to expand...

I thought it was a shield emitter. Like the Iulus Protective envelope system on the Arbiter class PA, but on a much larger, and stronger, scale.
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Cary L. Brown said:
Well, it just seems like a no-brainer to go ahead and say that this is a radiator and establish this once and for all.
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I humbly submit that placing the starship's radiator on the dorsal leading edge would at the very least negatively impact upon the sensitivity of any EM-based instruments located within the primary hull's lower sensor radome. Speaking from a strictly 21st century physics and engineering perspective (duh), many satellite-borne astronomical payloads - particularly those designed for IR astronomy such as IRAS, ISO and SST - are cooled to within several degrees of absolute zero via liquid helium in order to reduce thermal noise that would otherwise impinge upon the quality of the raw data. Depending on the spectra, luminosity and lobe geometry of the radiator's emissions the Ambassador Class could under certain circumstances be rendered virtually blind to those electromagnetic sources located within the nadir cone of its local celestial sphere.

TGT
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

All of the work-in-progress images that Andrew Probert has released to date can be found here.

Thanks to Mr. Probert for allowing me to publish them, and thanks to aridas for sharing his archive of the images.
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

FTP, my new hero. We now have a RECORD. Fans can argue about this forty years from now, and some old fart will pull these out and say "See, this PROVES my point!" And some other old fart will say "No no no, his intention is so OBVIOUS from the third revision, and he just got sidetracked by time and money constraints!" And some young whippersnapper will say "Oh, is this the stuff BEFORE Zachary Quinto? Ick!"
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

:lol: No doubt.

With that in mind, Probert, if you find any errors in my write-up, then let me know, and I'll fix them asap. :)
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Excellent job on the works-in-progress. I like seeing that bridge module there, the lifeboats, etc. Mr. Probert, how do you envision the interior of the bridge? Would it have a sunken central area, or level with the rest of the bridge, with an elevated aft, like the Enterprise D? I look forward to your sketches on that as well as the exterior.

James
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Earlier in this thread, Andrew Probert commented that, at least for the time being, he's sticking with the bridge as seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise, although he has added TNG-style additional rooms surrounding that bridge.

I think it's possible to imagine a much more interesting bridge than the "bridge of the week" seen in that episode -- yet one which still fits within the basic plan of that bridge. As a simple example, the sparse, continually recycled aft wall could be replaced with something more interesting.
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

The writeup's fine, however it'd be tough to retcon as ALL the on-screen Ambassadors look alike (into one of two subclasses, anyway). I'd rather just accept that this is someone else's vision of what the Ambie would have been like. Sorta like NASA's CEV competition, with various design groups submitting (often wildly) differing designs that would satisfy the same conditions and mission parameters. Starfleet narrowed it to two main design contenders, and chose the Sternbach design as the winner to build NX-10521. We've seen similar suggestions for the Defaint ---> Nova classes.

Mark
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Mark_Nguyen said:
The writeup's fine, however it'd be tough to retcon as ALL the on-screen Ambassadors look alike (into one of two subclasses, anyway). I'd rather just accept that this is someone else's vision of what the Ambie would have been like. Sorta like NASA's CEV competition, with various design groups submitting (often wildly) differing designs that would satisfy the same conditions and mission parameters. Starfleet narrowed it to two main design contenders, and chose the Sternbach design as the winner to build NX-10521. We've seen similar suggestions for the Defaint ---> Nova classes.

Mark
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Different strokes for different folks. :) One might also say that the Enterprise-E is the only Sovereign-class starship, since we never saw any others, even during the Dominion War, or that the first two Enterprises are the only upgraded Constitution-class starships, since they were the only ones we ever saw very clearly.
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Captain Robert April said:
Well, the very designation "Sovereign class" indicates at least a USS Sovereign.
Click to expand...

My point is that there are always possibilities. What works for one person need not work for another.
 
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