Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador kit!

[GodThingFormerly]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

FalTorPan said:
One thing that I like about the current WIP image is the dramatic camera angles. I can imagine this ship in a TMP-like, epic story of some kind, slowly pulling out of a larger version of the TMP drydock... and then leaping into warp speed.

It's funny you should mention that, because the orbital drydock designed by Andrew for TMP was equipped with expansion joints that would enable the facility to change size and shape depending on the dimensions of the starship it happened to be servicing at the time, although I suspect the Ambassador Class would be just a teensy weensy bit too big even with the structure fully expanded. Of course, the extreme modularity of the architecture would permit the relatively simple dismantling and "snapping together" of several existing drydocks to create one überdock. I assume that this type of reconfiguration may have happened before, considering that those things have been in orbit for over a century by the time of TMP.

Captain Robert April said:
And 1:72 would give us a model just under 24 feet long.

Which, coincidentally, is exactly the size Doug Trumbull wished Magicam's NCC-1701 Refit miniature was built to when he took over the visual effects on TMP.

TGT

 

[David cgc]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

FalTorPan said:
In most shots of TNG, the much larger Enterprise-D came off looking like a toy rather than an humungous yet graceful starship. I suspect this was a combination of uninspired cinematography and the overexaggerated details and chunky proportions of the four-foot filming miniature.

Which reminds me of something odd I noticed about the Ambassador (mostly the on-screen version). It looks so odd and squat proportionally, with a too-big saucer (or too-narrow engine section), but if you look at it next to a Connie or Excelsior in-scale, suddenly it looks less squat and more built-up from the old size. The proportions suddenly make sense looking at it next to what came before, as if they could (or needed to) only increase the size of certain components.

 

[Data Holmes]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

FalTorPan said:
One thing that I like about the current WIP image is the dramatic camera angles. I can imagine this ship in a TMP-like, epic story of some kind, slowly pulling out of a larger version of the TMP drydock... and then leaping into warp speed.

In most shots of TNG, the much larger Enterprise-D came off looking like a toy rather than an humungous yet graceful starship. I suspect this was a combination of uninspired cinematography and the overexaggerated details and chunky proportions of the four-foot filming miniature.

Indeed, the E-D was not well treated visually by TNG, at least I thought, with a few exceptions here and there. Which is a shame.

But then again, few of the trek movies had model effects like in TMP. That film should have been held as the example from which all the later work should have been held to, or better than.

 

[Griffworks]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

The God Thing said:
^ Much obliged, FTP. :thumbsup: 1:1000 scale appears perfect, especially if Federation Models offers a build-up service for those of us who are not Forbin.

FedMods doesn't offer a buildup service, tho I'm sure that Tracy could point you in the direction of one or two folks who'd be happy to do so. He's got a guy who does a LOT of buildup work for him, tho I have no clue if the fella (also named Tracy) still does buildups or what he'd charge. If nothing else, Starship Modeler has a Will Build For Others page with a whole host of folks who do work. If you want personal recommendations from the list, shoot mea PM and I'll give a few from the list who do great work, as well as one or two who aren't on the list.

Anyhow, I do know that Forbin doesn't do it for folks, no matter how much they might offer or how humbly they might ask. Just ask him about it....


EDITED: To fix URL Error on my part!

 

[FalTorPan]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

hutt359 said:
Indeed, the E-D was not well treated visually by TNG, at least I thought, with a few exceptions here and there. Which is a shame.

In Probert's latest Ambassador WIP images, the shots peeking through the space framed by the saucer, interconnecting dorsal, engineering hull, warp engine and warp engine pylon remind me of my favorite part of Star Trek: The Experience -- when the shuttlecraft flies through that space of the Enterprise-D. It was one of the few times that the Galaxy-class starship truly seemed huge.

These WIP images convey that same sense of scale to me, which makes it all the easier to imagine the Ambassador fully realized and going boldly.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Griffworks said:
He's got a guy who does a LOT of buildup work for him, tho I have no clue if the fella (also named Tracy) still does buildups or what he'd charge. If nothing else, Starship Modeler has a <a href="" target="_blank">Will Build For Others page</a> with a whole host of folks who do work. If you want personal recommendations from the list, shoot mea PM and I'll give a few from the list who do great work, as well as one or two who aren't on the list.

Thanks for the pointer, Griffworks. I'll definitely keep that in mind when the time comes.

TGT

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Updated! Now with preliminary sketches of the exposed (post-separation) interhull adapter and battle bridge.

TGT

 

[Turbo]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

It's the logical sep point, though the lone saucer is going to look a bit odd with the Excelsior-style impulse engines.

I was actually kinda hoping that we might get a battle section like the first one Mr. Probert designed for the Enterprise-D, where the main bridge and part of the saucer separate and form the battle section.

I'm lovin' the TMP-style angles on the front-view of the dorsal connector and nacelles.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Turbo said:
I was actually kinda hoping that we might get a battle section like the first one Mr. Probert designed for the Enterprise-D, where the main bridge and part of the saucer separate and form the battle section.

I expect that a space vehicle optimized for combat would require the presence of anti-matter reactors in order to most effectively energize its warp/impulse drives, hull shielding, phasers and photon torpedo warheads. Having the battle section pop out of the primary hull would necessitate replicating hardware that already exists in the secondary hull, thus inflicting upon the total starship system needless complexity and mass penalties. That being said, I have always considered the "families aboard starships" element one of GR's most terrible dramatic mistakes when developing ST:TNG, so having the ship separate for any reason beyond using the primary hull as an emergency lifeboat doesn't make me an exceptionally happy fanboy.

TGT, forever trapped in the 23rd century

 

[JJohnson]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

I find this concept fascinating myself, and I would definitely like to see it finished. I would, however, like to see a bridge, engineering, and perhaps a cutaway of the ship, so I can get a sense of where everything is on the inside. How big is this concept-Ambassador? How many decks? How fast can it go, and what are its armaments?

Keep up the good work, Mr. Probert!

James

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

JJohnson said:
I find this concept fascinating myself, and I would definitely like to see it finished. I would, however, like to see a bridge, engineering, and perhaps a cutaway of the ship, so I can get a sense of where everything is on the inside.

I wouldn't be surprised if a detailed specification sheet including an Okudagram-style MSD is included with the actual kit itself.

How big is this concept-Ambassador?

1721 feet in length, as noted by FalTorPan upthread.

TGT

 

[JJohnson]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

FalTorPan said:
Another update!

The bridge has a TNG-style ceiling window. The room behind the bridge has windows, and the lounge beneath it has windows as well. An aft-firing photon torpedo tube is now beneath the saucer's impulse engines.

I really look forward to seeing the engineering hull and nacelle pylons take shape.

Ok...I don't see what you see. I see the battle bridge-area, and nothing about the bridge having a ceiling window.

James

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

JJohnson said:
Ok...I don't see what you see. I see the battle bridge-area, and nothing about the bridge having a ceiling window.

Probert replaces the image file with a new one each time he updates the model.

TGT

 

[JJohnson]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Probert said:

The God Thing said:
Updated! Andrew, would it be at all possible - for those of us who have not been blessed with either the time or talent to effectively assemble and paint model kits - to purchase from you the actual digital meshes and texture maps in order for a third-party contractor to fabricate a USS Ambassador miniature to the customer's preferred scale?

TGT

While I sympathize with your time/talent dilemma, and appreciate the complement of your request, I am running a business here with my partner 'Federation Models' and can't be sharing this kind of data. I do, however, understand the desire to own a perticular model that matches one's favorite scale size, which is why I announced the Ambassador will be released initially in 1:1400.

Having said that, however, I will prepare a poll question regarding scale preferences. Please understand that 1/72 scale is not even a possibility... right now.

Andrew-

Aww...dang. I was going to build a house around the thing, too... I appreciate the work you're doing here, and I hope to see more of it in the future! I would love to see the interiors - I've heard about them, but have not seen those yet.

James

 

[Turbo]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

The God Thing said:

Turbo said:
I was actually kinda hoping that we might get a battle section like the first one Mr. Probert designed for the Enterprise-D, where the main bridge and part of the saucer separate and form the battle section.

I expect that a space vehicle optimized for combat would require the presence of anti-matter reactors in order to most effectively energize its warp/impulse drives, hull shielding, phasers and photon torpedo warheads. Having the battle section pop out of the primary hull would necessitate replicating hardware that already exists in the secondary hull, thus inflicting upon the total starship system needless complexity and mass penalties. Of course, I have always considered the "families aboard starships" element one of GR's most terrible dramatic mistakes when developing ST:TNG, so having the ship separate for any reason beyond using the primary hull as an emergency lifeboat doesn't make me an exceptionally happy fanboy.

TGT, forever trapped in the 23rd century

That's a good point. As I grow older, I find myself growing less and less enthused with the whole 'families on starships' concept. It's taken me awhile to get to this point, since I grew up with TNG, and I think you can guess who I latched on to.

And from a technical standpoint, I do see where it would be silly to reproduce the warp core and extra weapons in the saucer section. It could be dangerous, too, if there's no easy way to eject the battle section's warp core if it's damaged while the ship's in normal configuration.

But I do think that a saucer-mounted separable section would be neat, if for no other use than as a large captain's yacht. And the simple fact that it would look really, really cool.

 

[FalTorPan]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

The God Thing said:
Now with preliminary sketches of the exposed (post-separation) interhull adapter and battle bridge.

I believe the section on the aft of the interconnecting dorsal with the horizontal "vents" is intended to be a vertically oriented impulse engine, to be used by the secondary hull following saucer separation. Cool!

JJohnson said:
I find this concept fascinating myself, and I would definitely like to see it finished. I would, however, like to see a bridge, engineering, and perhaps a cutaway of the ship, so I can get a sense of where everything is on the inside. How big is this concept-Ambassador? How many decks? How fast can it go, and what are its armaments?

The ship's length has been stated -- in the neighborhood of 1721 feet. Based on that, I've made the following estimates:

Length: 1721 ft (524.6 m)
Width: 924.4 ft (281.7 m)
Height: 334.5 ft (101.9 m)

See this image for how I arrived at my estimates.

From Probert's earlier WIP images which featured the bridge module, it appeared as if the "Yesterday's Enterprise" bridge was the basis of the bridge of this CG model. Of course, at the scale that this would be made as a model kit, one could imagine the bridge looking significantly different without much noticeable impact on the overall design of the ship.

I for one love the idea of a starship with families aboard, but to each his, her or its own.

As for the rest of the ship's "guts" and capabilities... for now I'm just looking forward to discovering the shapes of the engineering hull -- especially the upper surface between the pylons. Anything else would be gravy.

 

[Turbo]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

FalTorPan said:

The God Thing said:
Now with preliminary sketches of the exposed (post-separation) interhull adapter and battle bridge.

I believe the section on the aft of the interconnecting dorsal with the horizontal "vents" is intended to be a vertically oriented impulse engine, to be used by the secondary hull following saucer separation. Cool!

I didn't see that until you pointed it out. That'd be sweet if that's what it is.

As for the rest of the ship's "guts" and capabilities... for now I'm just looking forward to discovering the shapes of the engineering hull -- especially the upper surface between the pylons. Anything else would be gravy.

Amen to that. But I have the feeling that this is going to be the hard part - there's not a whole lot of definition in the painting.

 

[FalTorPan]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Okay... this ship has fired up my imagination. You have been warned.

Historical Perspective

Let's say that the USS Ambassador NX-10521 was launched in 2323, followed by the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-C in 2325. The Excelsior class is still a workhorse of the Federation Starfleet, although its basic design is 40 years old. The Galaxy class is 20 years from being a glint in anyone's eye, and another two decades from entering active service. Whatever the fate of the Enterprise-B, she served the Federation with distinction for 15-25 years.

With respect to the Federation, the Romulans have been incommunicado for about a dozen years. Difficult negotiations with the Klingons are ongoing. Maybe the Ambassador class was named in honor of continuing diplomatic efforts with the Klingons.

Ambassador's Capabilities

Warp Drive: The Ambassador easily outraces the fastest ships of the Excelsior class.

Impulse Drive: The Ambassador is the first major Starfleet design to feature an impulse propulsion system in both the primary and secondary hulls. An innovative subspace driver coil forward of the primary hull's impulse engines gives the ship much higher delta-v capabilities and greater maneuverability than was possible with earlier designs.

Phasers: The Ambassador is the first major ship to feature "strip-style" emitter arrays, allowing a phaser beam to "walk" along the strip as it continues to bear on its target.

Photon Torpedos: The Ambassador has at least three launchers -- one aft-facing launcher on the primary hull, twin forward-facing launchers on the secondary hull, and perhaps a single aft-facing launcher on the secondary hull.

Shuttlebays: In addition to the traditional shuttlebay in the engineering hull, Ambassador's primary hull also has a large shuttlebay.

Crew Accommodations: With a crew complement of 700, the Ambassador provides a level of crew comfort far surpassing that of any previous ships. Many observation lounges and crew cabins have windows that provide a spectacular view of space. A botanical section, a carryover from later-model Constitution-class ships, gives the crew a taste of nature. Virtual reality/visicom facilities, although much more crude than the holodecks of later Galaxy-class ships, nonetheless support recreation and other activities.

Visual Aesthetic: I imagine the basic motif of the ship's interior being about halfway between TMP-TUC and TNG. I don't imagine there being any wood-grain handrails, but I also don't imagine "floor lighting" dominating all of the ship's corridors. Perhaps the Ambassador's interior has the best features of both eras.

Probert's Ambassador in Star Trek's Chronology

Now... how do we "retcon" Probert's Ambassador design into established Trek continuity? We've never seen the actual USS Ambassador, so it's fair to assume that she always looked like Probert's design. Since we see a Probert version of the Enterprise-C as the half-model in the Enterprise-D's observation lounge, we might imagine that the ship had that configuration at the time of her launch. By 2344, the ship had been overhauled to the Sternbach configuration.

What led to the overhaul? Sometime well after 2325, but years before 2344 -- let's say 2338 -- perhaps the Enterprise-C was SDF-3ed in the line of duty -- caught off-guard and rammed by an enemy vessel -- perhaps a Tholian ship. Heavily damaged, the ship was nearly scrapped, but a new starship class was not yet ready to carry on the name Enterprise, so the ship was saved, but overhauled to a second, pre-existing variant of the Ambassador class. This variant, which first saw active service in 2325, is technologically equivalent to the previous variant, but is bulkier, less costly and perhaps sturdier. Launched in its second configuration, the Enterprise-C served her new captain, Rachel Garrett, through many adventures and discoveries until the ship's fateful encounter with four Romulan Warbirds near the Klingon outpost at Narendra III.

Starships of both major types of the Ambassador class continue to serve well into the 2380s and beyond.

Summary of Ambassador's History

2323 - Ambassador-class USS Ambassador NX-10521 launched in "Probert configuration"
2325 - Ambassador-class USS Enterprise NCC-1701-C launched in "Probert configuration"
2325 - Launch of first Ambassador-class starship in "Sternbach configuration." Ships of both configurations continue to be produced.
2338 - USS Enterprise heavily damaged in surprise attack. Ship is overhauled to "Sternbach configuration" due to resource limitations.
2344 - USS Enterprise falls to Romulan attackers while defending Klingon outpost at Narendra III.

What do you think? Any other ideas?

 

[Probert]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

FalTorPan said:

Historical Perspective

Let's say that the USS Ambassador NX-10521 was launched in 2323, followed by the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-C in 2325. The Excelsior class is still a workhorse of the Federation Starfleet, although its basic design is 40 years old. The Galaxy class is 20 years from being a glint in anyone's eye, and another two decades from entering active service. Whatever the fate of the Enterprise-B, she served the Federation with distinction for 15-25 years.

Maybe the Ambassador class was named in honor of continuing diplomatic efforts with the Klingons.

Ambassador's Capabilities

Wheeew,... that all works for me.

So, let's answer a few questions:

Yes, there will be a vertical main impulse engine.

No, families were not intended for this ship, although there would be accomidations for 'couples'.

There's no "battle" bridge, there is an auxiliary or stardrive bridge and it's location is currently envisioned near the top of the dorsal, below the leading edge overhang, forward of the turboshafts.

As far as separating sections goes, that's been the standard configuration of every Federation starship from the time of the original 1701 through the 'D'. The relationship & mission of each independent 'section' has evolved during that time. Where Ambassador falls, within that history, is yet to be discovered. The saucer does have a landing 'ring' designed into the bottom, surrounding the lower sensor array. It's divided into twelve sections (pads & supports) to cope with weight loads & uneven terrain, but just like Kirk's original ship, the main purpose for this separated element is for emergencies. Now, to me, that can mean creating two fighting ships in a battle or using either section as a 'lifeboat', understanding, of course, only the saucer is able to land on a planetary body.

All my ships are built to even numbers. This ship is actually 1, 720 ' OL. I didn't write the call-outs on that size chart.

Yes, this bridge is based on that of the Enterprise-C for a bit of continuity, but it has been modified with the Galaxy bridge type peripherals. I'll post a picture or two later.

Thanks for the support & interest. BTW, enter my poll on scale preferences.

Andrew-

 

[candida]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Probert said:
No, families were not intended for this ship, although there would be accomidations for 'couples'.

Andrew-

I assume even the 1701 had a few toilets...