Andorians and climate?

[The Scottish Nightmare]

These sexes are confusing. So there are two female like ones and two male ones, and they need to exchange certain things between them in order to procreate.
I need to see some detailed diagrams.

 

[Enterprise1701]

I am reminded of how in TNG - Greater than the Sum, T'Ryssa Chen shows a holoprogram of Andorians mating to the NGC 6281 entity.

 

[Therin of Andor]

These sexes are confusing. So there are two female like ones and two male ones, and they need to exchange certain things between them in order to procreate.

Unlike many other hominids, Andorian sexual organs are not external. [The Next Generation: The Devil's Heart (Pocket, 1993) by Carmen Carter.] Four partners are usually required for an Andorian marriage. [TNG episode: Data's Day.]

The post-series DS9 Relaunch novels do give some brief explanations:

thaan = male analog
zhen = female analog/birth mother
chan = androgynous male analog
shen = androgynous female analog.

As the unique Andorian biology necessitates certain "expectations", it is considered unusual that an Andorian has not married by the age of twenty-three. The four Andorian genders can be signified by prefixes used with the surname, such as zh' (birth mother) and ch'. [Deep Space Nine: Avatar duology (Pocket, 2001) by SD Perry.]

During the conception of an Andorian child, the chan adds his gametes to those of the shen, which have already been fertilized by the thaan. The zygote is then implanted into the zhen's pouch. [Unity (Pocket, 2003) by SD Perry.]

 

[F. King Daniel]

During the conception of an Andorian child, the chan adds his gametes to those of the shen, which have already been fertilized by the thaan. The zygote is then implanted into the zhen's pouch. [Unity (Pocket, 2003) by SD Perry.]

I'm a little disappointed it's not just a four-way pileup.

Not that they couldn't do that if they wanted...

 

[Aaron McGuire]

I'm a little disappointed it's not just a four-way pileup.

Not that they couldn't do that if they wanted...

I figure that's what it looks like to the untrained eye.

 

[Nyotarules]

The dance of the double back hump back beast probably looks weird to Andorians as well. And humanoid male dangly bits have them roaring with laughter.

 

[The Scottish Nightmare]

That just sounds messy. So a chan has to perform the act with a Shen and then the chan has to do it with the zhen and finally it’s the thann with the zhen.
Fallen Gods implied that a Andorian can have kids with other species. I imagine it’s only with a zhen.

 

[JD]

Have you read the DS9 Relaunch? They go into quite a bit of detail about the Andorians.

 

[The Scottish Nightmare]

Have you read the DS9 Relaunch? They go into quite a bit of detail about the Andorians.

I will one day. Want to finish the post Nemesis stuff first. Do they come with pictures?
I just find it funny all this fuss Andoria secceding the Federation as the big affect it has on the entire galaxy when we didn’t see a single one in any of the TNG shows.

 

[Arpy]

Andorian mating's interesting. The thaan fertilizes the shen, who is further fertilized by the chan, then the shen implants the zygote into the zhen (who adds some of her own genes?) and carries to term.

Question: how many versions of "gay" Andorian sex are there? Is it gay or bi(?)sexual for the thaan and chan or shen and zhen to play with each other too, or is that standard? How alternative a relationship is it if it includes only three of the four? Or if there are four but they're all shens? Or a thaan, a shen, and two chans?

 

[Therin of Andor]

when we didn’t see a single one in any of the TNG shows.

"Captain's Holiday" (TNG) by Ian McLean, on Flickr


DS9's Andorian criminal by Ian McLean, on Flickr

An Andorian criminal was often displayed on a "Wanted poster" in Constable Odo's security office aboard Deep Space 9. [Episodes: Vortex; If Wishes Were Horses; The Forsaken; Dramatis Personae; Duet; In the Hands of the Prophets.]

 

[Christopher]

Question: how many versions of "gay" Andorian sex are there? Is it gay or bi(?)sexual for the thaan and chan or shen and zhen to play with each other too, or is that standard? How alternative a relationship is it if it includes only three of the four? Or if there are four but they're all shens? Or a thaan, a shen, and two chans?

My impression is that the full four-partner arrangement is necessary for reproduction, but there's more cultural flexibility when it comes to more emotionally based or casual relationships. If it's not about starting a family, then Andorians don't worry that much about how many people are involved or what their sexes are. At least, that's the sense I have of it, though I don't recall specific textual sources to that effect. (If there are textual sources, one or two of them may have been written by me. I've been doing this so long I don't even remember anymore.)

 

[TheUsualSuspect]

If I remember right, David Mack wrote about a shen and a zhen who had a relationship in either A Ceremony of Losses or Disavowed. It might also have been two of the same gender. I think it implied that such relationships had usually been frowned upon, but were becoming more acceptable in Andorian society.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Tezha, or sexual union outside the shelthreth, is frowned upon. Shar and Thriss indulged in this many years ago and kept the secret from their other two bondmates. [Andor: Paradigm by Heather Jarman in Worlds of Deep Space Nine, Book 1 (Pocket, 2004).]

 

[Christopher]

Okay, then, I guess I was thinking of something else. In my original SF, I've created a couple of alien species that see procreative sex as distinctly different from recreational or emotionally based sex, in at least one case because there's a significant physiological difference between the two, so it would never occur to them to equate the two. So maybe I expected the Andorians to approach it that way because of the approach I've taken with some of my own aliens.

 

[Enterprise1701]

If I remember right, David Mack wrote about a shen and a zhen who had a relationship in either A Ceremony of Losses or Disavowed. It might also have been two of the same gender. I think it implied that such relationships had usually been frowned upon, but were becoming more acceptable in Andorian society.

Do you mean Kellessar zh'Tarah and her sh'za Rane?

 

[JD]

"Captain's Holiday" (TNG) by Ian McLean, on Flickr


DS9's Andorian criminal by Ian McLean, on Flickr

An Andorian criminal was often displayed on a "Wanted poster" in Constable Odo's security office aboard Deep Space 9. [Episodes: Vortex; If Wishes Were Horses; The Forsaken; Dramatis Personae; Duet; In the Hands of the Prophets.]

They also showed an Andorian woman when Laal was going through possible appearnces in The Offspring. You can see it in the second and third pictures on the third row down.
I have to confess, the TNG version is my least favorite of all of the Andorian designs.

 

[TheUsualSuspect]

Do you mean Kellessar zh'Tarah and her sh'za Rane?

Probably. It's been a while since I read the book.

 

[DS9Continuing]

As I understood it, sexual relationships outside the four-way bond were frowned upon if the obligation to produce children had not yet been completed. The reason Shar and Thriss's dalliance without Anichent and Dizhei was not allowed was because it potentially threatened the cultural sanctity (and, IIRC, the biochemical compatibility) of the fourway bond and the shelthreth, and since nothing was more important in Andorian society than producing children in the short window available to them, that was considered a bad thing.

However, once that short window of opportunity for shelthreth was passed, and the obligation to produce children was no longer an issue, they were then free to do as they wanted with whomever they wanted. It was the 'making children' part that was important, and since that required all four, then nothing could be allowed to interfere with that until it was done. After which, it's a free-for-all.

That relationship with just one zhen and one shen was, I think, because the two males had moved on, that's all. I believe Shar once explained (I think to Prynn in 'Paradigm') that his zhavey still maintained a relationship with his thavan, but his charan and his shreya mostly lived their own lives separate from the rest and only came back for big clan events. And that it was a fairly common thing for bondgroups to drift apart once the shelthreth was done and the children were raised. What was very much unusual was a bondgroup separating before the shelthreth.

And Andorians certainly do have affairs outside of their species as well - witness Shar and Prynn, or Demora Sulu and her threeway relationship with a human woman and an Andorian chan. But again, that is only acceptable after as many children have been produced as possible. After that, presumably they don't care about species any more than they care about gender.

As for the climate issue, I have a vague recollection that something in the climate change over the centuries may in fact be responsible for the ever-shortening window of fertility, or possibly it was because of culturally selecting the Aenar out of their genome? I might be mixing that up with the Hyach off Babylon 5.

.

 

[Therin of Andor]

They also showed an Andorian woman when Laal was going through possible appearnces in The Offspring. You can see it in the second and third pictures on the third row down.

It's actually the same actress! Lal's Andorian persona, and the Andorian tourist I mentioned, were both played by Kristina Kell, who was also in one of the series of US "Survivor"!

I didn't mention Lal earlier, because someone was bound to jump in and say, "but Lal was just choosing what form she'd take."