And Cumberbatch's Character Is? [spoilers]

[Therin of Andor]

Re: And Cumberbatch?s Character Is?

The concept of an extra being a big shot in an alternate universe (especially with a near 50 year gap between productions), is something that just cannot work when you are making a film aimed at majority audiences.

Zod, Non and Ursa were barely even name-dropped in the first "Superman" movie, yet they were the featured villains of "Superman II". They didn't start out as extras, of course, but definitely only cameos.

 

[Pondslider]

Re: And Cumberbatch?s Character Is?

The concept of an extra being a big shot in an alternate universe (especially with a near 50 year gap between productions), is something that just cannot work when you are making a film aimed at majority audiences.

Zod, Non and Ursa were barely even name-dropped in the first "Superman" movie, yet they were the featured villains of "Superman II". They didn't start out as extras, of course, but definitely only cameos.

Zod was a character from the comics long before Superman 2 though.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Re: And Cumberbatch?s Character Is?

The only reason I've backed off Garthism is that Cumby is just too young to play the character. He's the same age as Pine, and Garth should be Pike's contemporary.

I wouldn't worry about ages at this point. They made Chekov a few years older in this timeline so he could be on the bridge inthe last movie. Everyone has been fudged with.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: And Cumberbatch?s Character Is?

Even if the movie doesn't actually confirm he is the same character, everyone is going to assume he is anyway. And when Pocket Books is finally able to do novels set in the Abramsverse, they may well decide to make the connection.

I can't wait for the effect on the TOS Prime novels...

Glancing over at Hairrison, Kirk wondered if the competent-yet-uninspired officer would ever amount to anything. Maybe in another life...

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: And Cumberbatch?s Character Is?

Zod was a character from the comics long before Superman 2 though.

Sure, but as a former child viewer of TV's "The Adventures of Superman", and only an occasional comic reader, I'd never heard of Zod. He may as well have been an extra.

I can't wait for the effect on the TOS Prime novels...

"When the Enterprise staged a raid against a Romulan space station in orbit of Levaeri V in 2275, Harrison was one of the hundred-odd crewpeople chosen to participate. Harrison had to be helped along in the push through the station as he was injured early on in the fighting." (TOS - Rihannsu novel: My Enemy, My Ally)

 

[Pondslider]

Re: And Cumberbatch?s Character Is?

Zod was a character from the comics long before Superman 2 though.

Sure, but as a former child viewer of TV's "The Adventures of Superman", and only an occasional comic reader, I'd never heard of Zod. He may as well have been an extra.

Not having heard of a character is a lot different than building a movie around a "character" that was nothing more than name and a shirt at his most fleshed out.

 

[urbandk]

I expect to be wrong about all of this of course, but...

GATT2000 could be a cyborg augment who is dedicated to bringing back Khan. Harrison could be a sleeper augment or clone of Khan who is activated in the film. As far as TOS Harrison goes, he might have been the same clone but never activated or never known who he actually was.

 

[The Wormhole]

Has anyone ID'd who Weller is playing yet?

All we know about Weller is that he is a "CEO type" with his own starship.

My personal theory is that he's Commander Starfleet.

 

[trekkiebaggio]

Has anyone ID'd who Weller is playing yet?

Nope, he was said to be playing someone in charge of a CEO wasn't he? I've read some speculation that Harrison could be a Section 31 agent, if that organisation is involved I could imagine Peter Weller being the head of it, or at least a major player. Abrams does like the government conspiracies doesn't he. Hey, maybe they even discover the Botany Bay and revive Khan, which could be the tease for the third film.

 

[urbandk]

I think you're on to something with the Section 31 angle. In the trailer, Harrison says the peace the Federation enjoys is a comforting illusion. Perhaps Section 31 has "bought" that peace at a high price, perhaps by secretly employing augments etc. I don't think TrekMovie was wrong to claim that the character is Khan months ago. I strongly suspect there is a Khan/Harrison connection.

 

[Vektor]

As tempted as I am to dismiss the Section 31 speculations, knowing how well steeped Orci and some of the others are in Trek esoterica does make me wonder. We also know from some of their comments that a certain degree of relevance to current events was desirable in this film. I could imagine a scenario in which John Harrison is actually a Section 31 operative, perhaps genetically augmented, who was somehow betrayed or abandoned by his superiors. Peter Weller might well be the head of Section 31, operating from a secretly built, technologically advanced starship, maybe the one with the darker interior we've seen in the previews, and maybe even the one we see crashing into San Francisco bay. All kinds of potential there for commentary on shadow governments, corruption, compromising of principles, abandoned loyalties, etc, and none of it requires an established character like Khan or Mitchell or even Unnamed Redshirt #7.

You know, I wonder if the statements that were made about the "villain" being a character from TOS season 1 were not in reference to the Cumberbatch character but rather to the Peter Weller character. Maybe he is one of the admirals who occasionally appeared on-screen to deliver orders to Kirk and the Enterprise or someone similar. The statements would then technically still be correct.

 

[Ryan8bit]

You know, I wonder if the statements that were made about the "villain" being a character from TOS season 1 were not in reference to the Cumberbatch character but rather to the Peter Weller character. Maybe he is one of the admirals who occasionally appeared on-screen to deliver orders to Kirk and the Enterprise or someone similar. The statements would then technically still be correct.

Supposedly, Weller was new to canon. But Orci also said that Cumberbatch was from canon, so we'll have to see how that goes.

 

[137th Gebirg]

As tempted as I am to dismiss the Section 31 speculations, knowing how well steeped Orci and some of the others are in Trek esoterica does make me wonder. We also know from some of their comments that a certain degree of relevance to current events was desirable in this film. I could imagine a scenario in which John Harrison is actually a Section 31 operative, perhaps genetically augmented, who was somehow betrayed or abandoned by his superiors. Peter Weller might well be the head of Section 31, operating from a secretly built, technologically advanced starship, maybe the one with the darker interior we've seen in the previews, and maybe even the one we see crashing into San Francisco bay. All kinds of potential there for commentary on shadow governments, corruption, compromising of principles, abandoned loyalties, etc, and none of it requires an established character like Khan or Mitchell or even Unnamed Redshirt #7.

You know, I wonder if the statements that were made about the "villain" being a character from TOS season 1 were not in reference to the Cumberbatch character but rather to the Peter Weller character. Maybe he is one of the admirals who occasionally appeared on-screen to deliver orders to Kirk and the Enterprise or someone similar. The statements would then technically still be correct.

I like this - almost like a Jason Bourne-style character gone completely off the reservation.

 

[Franklin]

You know, I wonder if the statements that were made about the "villain" being a character from TOS season 1 were not in reference to the Cumberbatch character but rather to the Peter Weller character. Maybe he is one of the admirals who occasionally appeared on-screen to deliver orders to Kirk and the Enterprise or someone similar. The statements would then technically still be correct.

Supposedly, Weller was new to canon. But Orci also said that Cumberbatch was from canon, so we'll have to see how that goes.

Well, I posted this in another thread about Weller's character, but it's worth bringing up here: in the most technical sense, if he is playing a Starfleet officer (assuming that "CEO" was a mistake), Robert April would be new to canon.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Has anyone ID'd who Weller is playing yet?

Nope, he was said to be playing someone in charge of a CEO wasn't he? I've read some speculation that Harrison could be a Section 31 agent, if that organisation is involved I could imagine Peter Weller being the head of it, or at least a major player. Abrams does like the government conspiracies doesn't he. Hey, maybe they even discover the Botany Bay and revive Khan, which could be the tease for the third film.

Trekmovie.com says Peter Weller is playing Admiral Marcus, Carol's father.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Trekmovie.com says Peter Weller is playing Admiral Marcus, Carol's father.

Where is that exactly? I must have missed that.

 

[Xaios]

Who knows though, maybe Admiral Marcus is the head of Section 31, unbeknownst to even his daughter. Cumbersson Harribatch could be playing an agent going rogue after being betrayed by his handlers. In his quest for vengeance, he seeks to hurt Admiral Marcus by taking the thing that is most special to him: his daughter. At some point in the film, he has her in a position to kill her while Admiral Marcus looks on helplessly, and offers to trade her life for his, saying "Is there anything you would not do for your family?"

Intriguing, eh?

 

[Drago-Kazov]

As tempted as I am to dismiss the Section 31 speculations, knowing how well steeped Orci and some of the others are in Trek esoterica does make me wonder. We also know from some of their comments that a certain degree of relevance to current events was desirable in this film. I could imagine a scenario in which John Harrison is actually a Section 31 operative, perhaps genetically augmented, who was somehow betrayed or abandoned by his superiors. Peter Weller might well be the head of Section 31, operating from a secretly built, technologically advanced starship, maybe the one with the darker interior we've seen in the previews, and maybe even the one we see crashing into San Francisco bay. All kinds of potential there for commentary on shadow governments, corruption, compromising of principles, abandoned loyalties, etc, and none of it requires an established character like Khan or Mitchell or even Unnamed Redshirt #7.

You know, I wonder if the statements that were made about the "villain" being a character from TOS season 1 were not in reference to the Cumberbatch character but rather to the Peter Weller character. Maybe he is one of the admirals who occasionally appeared on-screen to deliver orders to Kirk and the Enterprise or someone similar. The statements would then technically still be correct.

J.J.s new conspiracy show also seems to help your argument plus the Archon comic.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The Section 31 thing wouldn't surprise me.

I've been saying for a while that I'd be really surprised if it didn't show up at some point. The whole concept is just runs right up Bad Robot's alley.

It also wouldn't surprise me if that was the set-up for the next film, and they do some kind of play with 31 and 13.

 

[trekkiebaggio]

You know, I wonder if the statements that were made about the "villain" being a character from TOS season 1 were not in reference to the Cumberbatch character but rather to the Peter Weller character. Maybe he is one of the admirals who occasionally appeared on-screen to deliver orders to Kirk and the Enterprise or someone similar. The statements would then technically still be correct.

Supposedly, Weller was new to canon. But Orci also said that Cumberbatch was from canon, so we'll have to see how that goes.

Well, I posted this in another thread about Weller's character, but it's worth bringing up here: in the most technical sense, if he is playing a Starfleet officer (assuming that "CEO" was a mistake), Robert April would be new to canon.

I remember some of the Lost casting sheets had character descriptions, something like "character who leads a hostile takeover of a corporation" which was obviously not entirely accurate, so being called a 'CEO' probably doesn't literally mean a CEO.