An "official" Borg Homeworld?

[Tiberius]

If you're going to announce your presence, you need to learn the language. otherwise, the Borg are just gonna rock up and say, "adrhgafb rgaergv gaaiergqerg" which will leave the people they are attacking going WTF. If the Borg are going to communicate, then they are going to have to use a method they can actually communicate in.

And even if they do use translators, then "Borg" would be whatever the Borg's name for themselves translates into.

 

[Idran]

And even if they do use translators, then "Borg" would be whatever the Borg's name for themselves translates into.

Names don't translate into other things, they're proper nouns.

 

[captcalhoun]

yeah, but names mean things. like 'Sean' in Bajoran is swamp and my middle name, Nicholas, means 'victory' in, like, Greek or something.

 

[Christopher]

If you're going to announce your presence, you need to learn the language.

Not in a universe where everybody has magic instant translators.

otherwise, the Borg are just gonna rock up and say, "adrhgafb rgaergv gaaiergqerg" which will leave the people they are attacking going WTF.

Which would make no difference to the Borg either way. The idea that the Borg would give a flying fig for diplomatic niceties is risible. If they declare their intentions to destroy your civilization and nobody in your civilization understands what they said, it's not like the Borg are just going to stop and go, "Whoa, wait, I don't think they understood us, so we'd better turn around and go home now." They'll just gobble you up anyway without slowing down. If you didn't understand their intentions before, you'll sure as hell understand them once the implants get drilled into your brain.

 

[Tiberius]

And even if they do use translators, then "Borg" would be whatever the Borg's name for themselves translates into.

Names don't translate into other things, they're proper nouns.

Like how the German word for Germany isn't Germany, but Deutschland, and the Japanese call their country Nippon?

Besides, the Borg language would probably sound like a modem or something. That would be something, "We are the bzzzhrrrhssssshshshshshshshsbleep. You will be assimilated." If the Borg want to communicate something (as evidenced by the fact that they actually send a transmission), then they'd take steps to make sure it was understood.

If you're going to announce your presence, you need to learn the language.

Not in a universe where everybody has magic instant translators.

In which case it's the translator making the translation and deciding that, in English, Borg is the best word.

Look what they did with the Vinculum. I doubt the Borg speak latin, so the translator probably just chose the word that best matched the meaning of whatever word the Borg use for it. Given that Latin is taught to all starfleet cadets, I'd say that it's a reasonable conclusion.

otherwise, the Borg are just gonna rock up and say, "adrhgafb rgaergv gaaiergqerg" which will leave the people they are attacking going WTF.

Which would make no difference to the Borg either way. The idea that the Borg would give a flying fig for diplomatic niceties is risible. If they declare their intentions to destroy your civilization and nobody in your civilization understands what they said, it's not like the Borg are just going to stop and go, "Whoa, wait, I don't think they understood us, so we'd better turn around and go home now." They'll just gobble you up anyway without slowing down. If you didn't understand their intentions before, you'll sure as hell understand them once the implants get drilled into your brain.

By that logic, why would the Borg make any announcement at all?

Now, I would be perfectly content for them not to, but they do, and we can't get around that. But like I said, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the translator translates everything the Borg say into English.

 

[Christopher]

Like how the German word for Germany isn't Germany, but Deutschland, and the Japanese call their country Nippon?

Or more commonly Nihon.

In which case it's the translator making the translation and deciding that, in English, Borg is the best word.

Which I always figured was something the translators were programmed to do after Guinan coined the name. However, Destiny establishes that "Borg" is their name for themselves and gives a valid reason why.

Look what they did with the Vinculum. I doubt the Borg speak latin, so the translator probably just chose the word that best matched the meaning of whatever word the Borg use for it. Given that Latin is taught to all starfleet cadets, I'd say that it's a reasonable conclusion.

"Vinculum" is simply a fancy word for "link" or "tie." Though Latin-derived, it is an English word, just one reserved for formal or technical uses.

By that logic, why would the Borg make any announcement at all?

Now, I would be perfectly content for them not to, but they do, and we can't get around that.

It is kind of out of character. I figure maybe they eventually figured out that it might save them some effort fighting off resistance if they could point out that resistance was futile.

I kinda like the way the Borg Queen was portrayed in "Unimatrix Zero" when she tried to lure that child into rejoining the Collective. In her/the Collective's mind, assimilating other beings is doing them a favor, bringing them the perfection of the Borg. And the Borg aren't above doing a little proselytizing/seduction to sell themselves. Honestly, they'd be more interesting to me if they did that more often. Insidious threats like that, ones that make themselves enticing, are more formidable.

But like I said, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the translator translates everything the Borg say into English.

But by the same token, it's reasonable that the name would be chosen by the listeners' translators or simply would be the Borg's own designation. The Borg actually going to the trouble to learn someone else's language and coin a new word for themselves in that language just seems out of character and unnecessary.

 

[Tiberius]

In which case it's the translator making the translation and deciding that, in English, Borg is the best word.

Which I always figured was something the translators were programmed to do after Guinan coined the name. However, Destiny establishes that "Borg" is their name for themselves and gives a valid reason why.

I haven't read it. I haven't read much of Trek lit that has been published in the last few decades (now that makes me sound old!) Could you give me a brief go-over?

"Vinculum" is simply a fancy word for "link" or "tie." Though Latin-derived, it is an English word, just one reserved for formal or technical uses.

True, but still relevant, and it supports the idea that the translator is translating the Borg language into something approaching English. Like I said, the Borg language itself probably sounds like modem static or something.

By that logic, why would the Borg make any announcement at all?

Now, I would be perfectly content for them not to, but they do, and we can't get around that.

It is kind of out of character. I figure maybe they eventually figured out that it might save them some effort fighting off resistance if they could point out that resistance was futile.

Just one of the things we have to accept. :P

I kinda like the way the Borg Queen was portrayed in "Unimatrix Zero" when she tried to lure that child into rejoining the Collective. In her/the Collective's mind, assimilating other beings is doing them a favor, bringing them the perfection of the Borg. And the Borg aren't above doing a little proselytizing/seduction to sell themselves. Honestly, they'd be more interesting to me if they did that more often. Insidious threats like that, ones that make themselves enticing, are more formidable.

My idea of the borg (in that they act as a single giant mind formed of all the drones working together, and it is this mind that is the queen) fits this perfectly. it also fits how the Borg renegged on the deal in Scorpion part 2. Because the Borg Queen (the entire mind of the Collective, not the body) is a spoiled brat who is used to getting what she wants, when she wants it.

But like I said, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the translator translates everything the Borg say into English.

But by the same token, it's reasonable that the name would be chosen by the listeners' translators or simply would be the Borg's own designation. The Borg actually going to the trouble to learn someone else's language and coin a new word for themselves in that language just seems out of character and unnecessary.

Like I said, it might not be the Borg themselves translating it. But whether it's translated at the Borg end or at the Federation end, it is obviously translated.

 

[captcalhoun]

basically

late comer spoilers here.







the Borg are created from three humans and an alien and one of the humans last thoughts is along the lines of 'i dont want to be a cy-' the first thought of the collective is 'borg'.

 

[Christopher]

True, but still relevant, and it supports the idea that the translator is translating the Borg language into something approaching English.

Well, yes, that's what translators do, so I don't see why it needs pointing out any more than it needs pointing out that, say, viewscreens let you look at stuff.