An explanation for continuity (spoilers)

[Kaziarl]

Ok, so I saw someone argue that the timeline should have either reverted, or that old spock should have dissapeared since the events of his life weren't going to happen the same way.

Now, there is some logic, but they also said that this is how it's ALWAYS worked on the show. Either everything gets put back the way it's supposed to, or items from the original timeline vanish.

But it struck me last night, what about the alternate Tasha Yar? We know that the enterprise c was caught in a temporal anomoly, causing the federation to be at war with the klingons. We can assume several things, like the planet Armus is on being in Klingon territory instead of Federation, but something was changed that kept her alive.

Now when she goes back, the timeline is restored, but doesn't that mean she would have vanished, and not given birth to Seela?

The same can be said here with the destruction of vulcan. The two timelines are still connected through old spock, but the split with the destruction of the USS Kelvin, and the planet Vulcan.

So I guess what i'm trying to say is, why are there still people trying to say "MINE TREK IST FUBAR!!!!" The situation still fits within the continuity.

 

[darkshadow0001]

Ok, so I saw someone argue that the timeline should have either reverted, or that old spock should have dissapeared since the events of his life weren't going to happen the same way.

Not necessarily. Remember in Star Trek:First Contact (the movie) when the Enterprise traveled back in time to stop the Borg? They all were fine from the changes. I think as long as you travel back in the same way you will be fine.

 

[Myasishchev]

It's not Spock-1's fault that Star Trek got time travel wrong just about every single time they did it.

 

[gastrof]

Ok, so I saw someone argue that the timeline should have either reverted, or that old spock should have dissapeared since the events of his life weren't going to happen the same way...

It's always possible that younger Spock remembers these events when he gets older, and somehow Nero still goes back in time, Spock along with him.

Older Spock might even go back in time deliberately so there IS an older Spock to mess with Nero "back in the day". Why didn't he stop Nero from destroying the Kelvin? Maybe he tried and the time travel hiccuped and he didn't make it in time.

As Patrick Stewart once said "It's science fiction. We can do anything we want to do."

 

[gastrof]

It's not Spock-1's fault that Star Trek got time travel wrong just about every single time they did it.

You know, I've put over 500 miles on my borrowed DeLorean from repeatedly trying to stop you from making this erroneous post, and something's gone wrong and prevented me every time.

I give up.

 

[Grup]

I just left the IMDB where there was a huge rant about how this movie changes everything. No kidding. What I don't understand (and I would think they would) is that they're complaining about how this affects future events that we know have happened. This is a changed timeline. Our crew is not going to have to save whales or bring Spock back to Vulcan. That has already happened and our "new" heroes are going to encounter new challenges. Kirk may never meet Khan (or Harry Mudd for that matter). I'm not saying this was the right way to go (although I'm happy with it) but this is the end result of an altered time line. ALL future events are null and void in this existence.

 

[Starbreaker]

How in the world can you understand anyone at IMDB?

 

[Myasishchev]

It's not Spock-1's fault that Star Trek got time travel wrong just about every single time they did it.

You know, I've put over 500 miles on my borrowed DeLorean from repeatedly trying to stop you from making this erroneous post, and something's gone wrong and prevented me every time.

I give up.

My ego is bigger on the inside.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I just left the IMDB where there was a huge rant about how this movie changes everything. No kidding. What I don't understand (and I would think they would) is that they're complaining about how this affects future events that we know have happened. This is a changed timeline. Our crew is not going to have to save whales or bring Spock back to Vulcan. That has already happened and our "new" heroes are going to encounter new challenges. Kirk may never meet Khan (or Harry Mudd for that matter). I'm not saying this was the right way to go (although I'm happy with it) but this is the end result of an altered time line. ALL future events are null and void in this existence.

They are trying to tell TREK fans with BIG BOLD Letters that the continuity had to go so as to tell knew stories with out continuity folks bashing them...they can do whatever they want now..and that is a GOOD thing...

Rob

 

[gastrof]

I just left the IMDB where there was a huge rant about how this movie changes everything. No kidding. What I don't understand (and I would think they would) is that they're complaining about how this affects future events that we know have happened. This is a changed timeline. Our crew is not going to have to save whales or bring Spock back to Vulcan. That has already happened...

No.

It hasn't.

Those are events that WOULD have happened IN THESE PEOPLE'S FUTURES.

They therefore have NOT happened.

And they're apparently not going to, either. At least not in the same way we know they were to.

You're right that the timelines been changed and now a whole new series of stories will result, but don't say those things "have" happened. They HAVE NOT, and now possibly WILL not.

I'm just worried about poor Tuvok. He was to be born on a "Vulcan lunar colony called 'Vulcanis'". Where IS Vulcanis? We know Vulcan has no moon, but does Vulcanis orbit a planet in the same star system as Vulcan?

Will the destruction of Vulcan change the orbit of the planet Vulcanis orbits and thus cause the surface of that entire world to be laid waste? Will only the superior intelligence of the Vulcans there make possible their survival?

And what of local lifeforms on Vulcanis that survive the disaster, and possibly try to get inside those extra large ears?

 

[Grup]

I just left the IMDB where there was a huge rant about how this movie changes everything. No kidding. What I don't understand (and I would think they would) is that they're complaining about how this affects future events that we know have happened. This is a changed timeline. Our crew is not going to have to save whales or bring Spock back to Vulcan. That has already happened...

No.

It hasn't.

Those are events that WOULD have happened IN THESE PEOPLE'S FUTURES.

They therefore have NOT happened.

And they're apparently not going to, either. At least not in the same way we know they were to.

You're right that the timelines been changed and now a whole new series of stories will result, but don't say those things "have" happened. They HAVE NOT, and now possibly WILL not.

I'm just worried about poor Tuvok. He was to be born on a "Vulcan lunar colony called 'Vulcanis'". Where IS Vulcanis? We know Vulcan has no moon, but does Vulcanis orbit a planet in the same star system as Vulcan?

Will the destruction of Vulcan change the orbit of the planet Vulcanis orbits and thus cause the surface of that entire world to be laid waste? Will only the superior intelligence of the Vulcans there make possible their survival?

And what of local lifeforms on Vulcanis that survive the disaster, and possibly try to get inside those extra large ears?

I'm no authority (as if there actually could be) on time travel, but if future Spock came back, then everything that happened to him did happen. And to all the people in his life as well. Now granted these new characters won't see the same things in this timeline but they did occur (as we know them) in old Spocks timeline. Am I right, wrong or confused?

I was stumped by the hardcore Trek folk complaining that Kirk can't save the whales now. He can't because this is a different life path they're taking now. This Kirk won't save whales but the Kirk in old Spocks time still did. Right?

 

[Myasishchev]

Saving the whales would be easier this time. As soon as the Probe showed up, old Spock would tell young Spock, "Hey, these guys are probably looking for humpback whales." Young Spock goes, "We don't have any humpback whales." Old Spock says, "Well, check out these calculations." And Young Spock takes the Enterprise back to 198x, beams up George and Gracie into prefabricated transparent aluminium holding tanks, and books it back to the 23d century without further incident. The Probe hears the whales before it even reaches Earth, and all is well, without even a "colorful metaphor" to mark the occasion.