Amok Time doesn't make sense.

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Lt. Uhura-Brown, May 14, 2013.

  1. Hando

    Hando Commander Red Shirt

    Jan 28, 2011
    We have seen a precedent with Archer. An United Earth Starfleet captain who has no idea about the local interstellar neighborhood.
  2. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

    Aug 20, 2009
    I think it was pretty obvious that originally Stonn was going to be T'Pring's choice for her champian, selecting Kirk was a spur of the moment decision. For all the reasons she would later mention, plus she wouldn't have to risk her lover.

    Nothing is likely an over-statement. If there were 150 members in Picard's time, I personally figure there were something like 35 - 50 in Kirk's time. That Kirk would reasonable have more than a passing knowledge of all of them is unlikely. Even the one that produced his first officer.

    And it's also unlikely that McCoy knew "nothing," he just didn't know everything. Which is probably the story with many Federation Member species.

    I have found it odd through the years, that fans seem to assume that as soon as Kirk and McCoy returned to the Enterprise, they immediately spread the intimate details of pon farr to the entire galaxy. As Spock's friends they both would have kept their mouth's shut on the matter, if you choose your friends carefully, you can trust them with your secrets.

  3. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Mar 8, 2001
    Again: when "Amok Time" was written, we had no idea how secretive this peculiar and distant species was.
  4. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 5, 2013
    Agreed. Not to mention that while T'Pol might qualify as a precedent, in the times of Enterprise, it was even more of an era of "cowboy diplomacy" and who knows WHAT Archer left of out the "official" report. Also, that era also establishes a great distrust between Vulcans and humans, and that undoubtedly continued even into the TOS era. Also, not many Wulcans served alongside humans, and until T'Pol, it was generally assumed Spock was one of the first Vulcans to serve to do so. Even in TOS, for the USS Intrepid was crewed by exclusively Vulcans.

    Bottom line: do I buy Kirk not knowing the specifics of Vulcan mating? Totally.
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Walrus Premium Member

    Nov 4, 2001
    Sitting on a cornflake.
    Of course in the "Earth Ship" and UESPA episodes there was no Federation. The Enterprise was an Earth ship. Star Trek was still evolving back then.
  6. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Nov 29, 2009
    Los Angeles, CA
    "Smashy crushers"? :confused: Is that a Kiwi thing?
  7. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Personally, I thought it stupid for Kirk to get wrapped up in it. Sure, he doesn't want to lose his first officer (thinking Stonn would kill him), but then to have his first officer kill him? Fight to the death. And if he gets lucky and wins? Either way he loses. ILLOGICAL. But McCoy saved the day, slipping him a neural paralyzer. Knocked him out, simulated death. Even still, Kirk could have started to lose consciousness at the wrong moment and then Spock would have decapitated him once his guard was down. And no, the neural paralyzer wasn't a Kirk/Bones collaboration--no dialog to support it. He was on a path of losing either way. Really stupid.

    I can't stand this episode and never watch it, although if forced I'd pick this one over "And The Children Shall Lead."
  8. TorontoTrekker

    TorontoTrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 15, 2002
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    That's a good idea, but it's contradicted later on (and there's nothing in "Amok Time" to support that, either). At the beginning of the Voyager episode "Alice" (I can't believe that I'm citing Voyager, never mind one of my least favourite episodes - but it happens to be showing on Space as I type this), Paris and Kim are trying to guess Tuvok's age, and Paris makes a reference to Tuvok's 11th pon farr having taken place in 2304 (or something to that effect - I didn't know when the episode started that I'd be posting in this thread, or I would have paid closer attention to the dialogue).

    But pon farr might be something that Vulcans who don't have access to logical sex thrice a day and five times a night (nice turn of phrase, BTW :) ) suffer from, like an addict who can't get a fix for an extended period.

    Hm, the ever-logical Vulcans are secret sex addicts... :devil:

    I took it as a Galaxy Quest reference.
  9. Lt. Uhura-Brown

    Lt. Uhura-Brown Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    May 14, 2013
    New Zealand
    Indeed it was. :lol:
  10. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

    Nov 9, 2007
    I assumed it meant Crusher's great-great grandma running around smashing stuff.
  11. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

    Mar 15, 2001
    I said out, dammit!
    "Smashy Crusher" was, in fact, a nickname Beverly's great-great-grandma picked up during a pub crawl one winter weekend.
  12. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

    Feb 23, 2013
    Will be Celebrating Spocktoberfest this year!
    I understood GQ, but they were Chompers.

    Smashy Crusher should be a new rock band!

    I think Amok Time makes perfect sense.

    Gary, did you listen to the episode?

    So, Bones did save the day, but Kirk didn't know anything about "to the death" until after he agreed. Talk about fine print, right? He has no intention of killing anyone.

    Bones took a calculated risk, but he was against the wall, should he stand and do nothing? So he actually allowed Kirk to "quit" by drugging him. Honor was satisfied and no one died. The dialogue is quite clear.

    If Bones told Kirk what he was doing:
    1. Kirk would be dishonest.
    2. The Vulcans would have heard and who knows what law would apply at that point.
    The big guy with the big ax was ready to split McCoy from crown to groin if he interfered.

    (Actually, I don't know that last part, I just read that in a Conan book and like throwing it in whenever I can.)
    Last edited: May 17, 2013
  13. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

    Sep 28, 2006
    Georgia, USA
    And for all we know, maybe Kirk technically "flat lined" due to the drug and thus could be considered "dead" by the ancient laws. He was beamed up to the ship rather quickly, so we can only assume McCoy was able to restart his heart and breathing before brain damage set in.


  14. danellis

    danellis Commander Red Shirt

    Mar 15, 2010
    "Deaths" like that are ten a penny in StarTrek

  15. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

    Feb 23, 2013
    Will be Celebrating Spocktoberfest this year!
    Really, a shot of stokaline and all better! :guffaw:
  16. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

    May 12, 2004
    Lancaster, PA
    Exactly. If you go back and watch the early episodes, Kirk and the crew tend to treat Spock as a very mysterious and exotic curiosity. One gets the impression that Spock is the first Vulcan most of them have ever met. "Tell me about the moons on your planet, Mister Spock." Etcetera.

    And the idea that the Vulcans are secretive and reclusive never really went away. As late as The Search for Spock, Kirk and the higher-ups at Starfleet are apparently unaware of that whole "katra" business . . . and seem somewhat skeptical about "Vulcan mysticism" in general.

    Heck, in "Journey to Babel," McCoy doesn't know what a sehlat is either . . .
  17. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Dec 11, 2006
    Moncton, NB
    What about the Starfleet Doctor onboard who interned at Vulcan? Surely HE would've known what was going on. Doctor M'Benga.
  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Aug 26, 2003
    Not necessarily, as he would have been under rather controlled conditions and might well have been denied access to patients who might have compromised Vulcan secrets.

    In any case, it's beyond miraculous that McCoy would know the physiologies of two species well enough to operate - most humans today fail to master one despite extensive training. There are probably specialists in Starfleet for Vulcan and Klingon medicine, but there's no conceivable way Starfleet could afford to place them aboard the Enterprise, and no particular motivation to do so.

    Timo Saloniemi
  19. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

    Mar 23, 2004
    Gov Kodos on Mohammed's Radio, WZVN Boston
    And M'Benga may have been brought aboard at the urging of McCoy as a result of the events of Amok Time and Journey to Babel.
  20. Elder Knight

    Elder Knight Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Dec 27, 2002
    SE USA
    It must've been a close call there -- that would explain Kirk's cluelessness in "Trouble With Tribbles" (maybe that was the next episode chronologically): he was still regaining brain function.