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America and Socialism...

But again, most of those that earn less do not do so simply because they are unwilling or less ambitious.

That may or may not be true, but sometimes life becomes perilously difficult despite hard work. My father joined the Army after high school, worked his way through college (holding down three jobs and a full load of courses), re-joined the Army as an officer, and sought a graduate degree in computer science after becoming a civilian again, using the G.I. Bill to pay for school and working as a lab instructor to feed our family. This was a decade or so before the dot com boom. Had everything continued to go right, he would've almost certainly have become as wealthy as did his peers.

But it didn't go right. One of my siblings became sick and almost died. My father couldn't afford health insurance as a student teacher, and the medical expenses nearly bankrupted our family. My father had to leave school, and spent the next decade trying to make enough money in poorly paying jobs to get by. I didn't know it at the time, but we almost didn't eat some days. Some days my parents didn't. Some nights, they went to sleep not knowing how they were going to feed their kids the next day.

Eventually, we made it out through the Army. My mother went to school once we were old enough to look after ourselves for part of the day, and she returned to active duty as an officer (my parents met as officers in the Army). By the start of my junior year of college, they finally paid off the medical bills from my sibling's illness when I was three. (He died, medical efforts not withstanding.)

All of this - all of this poverty, this worry, this starving, this struggle - because we lived in a country without universal health care. My parents are some of the hardest-working persons I know of. My father worked sixteen hour days, every day, for months at a time. My mother gets to her office at 0700 every day, and usually doesn't leave for home until 2000 at night. They work hard.

And they couldn't make it - couldn't keep their children out of poverty - in a country that's supposed to offer nothing but opportunity. Opportunity for those who work hard, who think cleverly, who act with ambition. But apparently not for those whose children get sick.
 
Those that continually complain about socialism in America have little clue as to what socialism actually is.

Ironically, socialism is alive and well in the US Military. We live in government housing, shop at government stores (which turn a profit - it goes to MWR - but are vastly cheaper than civilian grocers; it's absurd how much groceries cost at a normal grocery store - the same brands are usually 1/4-1/2 the price at the Commisary), and, yes, have government-run health care. Since we've been under the aegis of military health care, not one member of my family has had to wait more than a week or so for any particular care, and immediate difficulties are addressed immediately, no matter the cost. It's a good system.
 
Whatever. Less fortunate people are less fortunate for a reason. If they are disabled or elderly they should receive assistance. If not, they can work like the rest of us.

This is one of the dumbest statements I have ever read. Less fortunate people are less fortunate for a reason...Yeah, it's called life!

Right now it is extremely difficult to get a job, even if you are a skilled worker, much more if you aren't. I mean...come on TLS. Think with your head!

Sorry Boli, people need to make their own success in life. Sure there are ups and downs and everyone needs a hand up sometime, but at the end of the day hard work and smart planning mean you'll be successful and not poor.

So breaking your leg and having to go through over 10,000 dollars worth of medical care is what? Like someone can save 10,000 dollars if they have kids and a life...

Smart planning is just a stupid statement amongst stupid statements. YOU CAN'T PLAN FOR THE UNPREDICTABLE.
 
This is one of the dumbest statements I have ever read. Less fortunate people are less fortunate for a reason...Yeah, it's called life!

Right now it is extremely difficult to get a job, even if you are a skilled worker, much more if you aren't. I mean...come on TLS. Think with your head!

Sorry Boli, people need to make their own success in life. Sure there are ups and downs and everyone needs a hand up sometime, but at the end of the day hard work and smart planning mean you'll be successful and not poor.

So breaking your leg and having to go through over 10,000 dollars worth of medical care is what? Like someone can save 10,000 dollars if they have kids and a life...

Smart planning is just a stupid statement amongst stupid statements. YOU CAN'T PLAN FOR THE UNPREDICTABLE.

If you're going to respond to me please keep it civil.

Now, you most certainly can plan for the unpredictable. That's a key component to maturity.

And again, I am not saying something doesn't need to be done. I am not saying there should be regulations in place that prevent the pricing we're currently seeing. What I am saying is that government beauraucrats shoud not be determining what healthcare you receive and when.

I just read a story yesterday about UK patients not being able to get arthritis treatment for the first 9 months after diagnosis. If given treatment within the first 90 days the prognosis is signifigantly better. It's a joke, as is the looming 57% tax rate for some New Yorkers.

That's stupid!
 
The healthcare system needs to be fixed, but it isn't as bad as the OP makes it out to be. I think the healthcare system should be regulated in a way to affect positive change.

Also, the US already has socialist policies in many areas.
 
Sorry Boli, people need to make their own success in life. Sure there are ups and downs and everyone needs a hand up sometime, but at the end of the day hard work and smart planning mean you'll be successful and not poor.


Which is also true in those socialist countries you keep talking about.
 
Most people can't do preventive care. They can only work on what they have. They can't go...oh well I don't feel good, maybe I should take a day off of work and go to the doctor and see if I have bronchitis or whatnot.
 
Most people can't do preventive care.
Out of 320 million people in the US, only about 30 million are without health insurance of some kind. Yes I'm leaving out the 20 million fucking illegal aliens draining our system and raising healthcare prices by getting free (for them) attention.

That's not most. Many people between the ages of 25 and 40 don't need insurance. I didn't and didn't carry it.

The Romneycare fiasco here in Mass is breaking the bank. People have to have insurance or will be fined (oh that should help people's budget). The costs have ballooned so much that Mass now will drop some people from the free care. And to further rein in costs for this ridiculous idea they're going to make it worse by "a set payment for each patient that covers all that person’s care for an entire year and to make the radical shift within five years. Providers would have to work within a predetermined budget, forcing them to better coordinate patients’ care, which could improve quality and reduce costs." link

My doctor, on a restricted budget? I can't wait to get sick again. The socialist model does not work.

When I get my car fixed I don't have special insurance for that. I also don't have to mortgage my house to pay for the repairs.

If we really want to keep the best healthcare that man has ever had in the history of mankind, we can't let the government have anything to do with it.

To drive down costs we need to do away with insurance. The health industry would have to dramatically cut prices so people could afford their services or they would go out of business. There would have to be an option for people to buy catastrophic insurance but that wouldn't have to be for everyone.

The only thing that socialized healthcare that Obama is forcing on us will do is let people die earlier. That's the only way to reduce costs with socialism.
 
Ideology doesn't permit rationality and I see a lot of it here with the omg!!! socialism is evil, obamas a Stalinist!!!!!! fyi america is a state capitalist society, free equitable trade as described by adam smith does not exist.
 
Gertch said:
Out of 320 million people in the US, only about 30 million are without health insurance of some kind. Yes I'm leaving out the 20 million fucking illegal aliens draining our system and raising healthcare prices by getting free (for them) attention.
The fault is not entirely on the illegal aliens but also anyone without insurance the law says life saving emergency care has to be provided.
Gertch said:
That's not most. Many people between the ages of 25 and 40 don't need insurance. I didn't and didn't carry it.
Everyone needs insurance as anyone can get sick or injured.
Gertch said:
The Romneycare fiasco here in Mass is breaking the bank. People have to have insurance or will be fined (oh that should help people's budget). The costs have ballooned so much that Mass now will drop some people from the free care. And to further rein in costs for this ridiculous idea they're going to make it worse by "a set payment for each patient that covers all that person’s care for an entire year and to make the radical shift within five years. Providers would have to work within a predetermined budget, forcing them to better coordinate patients’ care, which could improve quality and reduce costs."
Going bankrupt due to doctor bills isn't good for the budget either. Private insurance routinely puts limits on the amount of care an individual can receive.
Gertch said:
My doctor, on a restricted budget? I can't wait to get sick again. The socialist model does not work.
Insurance companies can restrict your budget too and even deny your claim or outright cancel you coverage. Again socialism and capitalism aren't mutually exclusive they can coexist side by side and have for some time. The police, fire department, and post office are all socilist concepts.
Gertch said:
When I get my car fixed I don't have special insurance for that. I also don't have to mortgage my house to pay for the repairs.
Car repairs are affordable it doesn't cost hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix a car the way it can to fix your body.
Gertch said:
If we really want to keep the best healthcare that man has ever had in the history of mankind, we can't let the government have anything to do with it.
It's only the best if you have millions of dollars at your disposal. Not allowing government to do anything about the healthcare crisis is what got us into this mess.
Gertch said:
To drive down costs we need to do away with insurance. The health industry would have to dramatically cut prices so people could afford their services or they would go out of business. There would have to be an option for people to buy catastrophic insurance but that wouldn't have to be for everyone.
Good luck getting rid of insurance companies they aren't just going to pack up and leave for the good of the nation or our health there is money to be made after all. The industry doesn't need to cut prices because of the nature of the demand is inelastic meaning you have to pay pay for it since it's something you can't do without. There are already plans you can buy that cover nothing but catastrophic stuff but that's part of the problem.
Gertch said:
The only thing that socialized healthcare that Obama is forcing on us will do is let people die earlier. That's the only way to reduce costs with socialism.
Obama is not forcing socialized care on anyone he only wants a public insurance option available for the people who have been screwed over by private insurers. The plan will not let people die earlier and it is not a way to reduce costs that's not even what socialism is.
 
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