Ambassador class weapons

[Timo]

If the warp engines, window rows and bridge dome are any indication, the Jenolan was about the size of Kirk's original two ships. And the huge black opening aft appears to be a cavernous shuttlebay or cargo hold - indeed, it's difficult to locate any impulse engine (that is, any rocket nozzle shape) on that ship at all, unless it's immediately adjacent to the blue dome atop the hull.

Still, it is plausible that a smaller ship would have an advantage over a larger one in this respect, even when those fancy mass-nullifying fields come to play. The Jenolan looks like she could dip into an atmosphere and perhaps land and take off, probably calling for plenty of off-axis thrust that might also aid in spatial maneuvering. And she'd probably have different impulse characteristics empty and fully laden, while the E-D would have lesser differences in that respect. I wonder what else was being transported to Norpin besides Scotty's personal bulk?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS KG5]

I wonder what else was being transported to Norpin besides Scotty's personal bulk?
Timo Saloniemi

"I've never beamed up 400 tons before"
"400 tons?"
"It's not just Scotty - it's his lunch!!!"

 

[JNG]

Yes, it appears Jenolan is about the size of three(!) Constitution-class ships in volume, or just under. Of course, a lot of that is probably empty space for carrying stuff, and she sure could carry a lot of it. Some fans assumed that she was only a personnel transport because she was carrying Scotty and because the Nash was conveying various important characters on four occasions on DS9, but I rather think this type of ship is a heavy warp hauler that can carry lots of cargo and passengers too, and this probably explains why we see one in active service many years later (even heading out to relatively distant and dangerous DS9). I don't think she could land, being so big and considering the time she was built, but there's definitely plenty of room for shuttles to come and go.

It's possible Geordi was being a bit nice when he estimated its impulse performance relative to Enterprise-D, but I bet he actually has a point, and I take the statement about impulse engines not having changed radically at face value.

 

[Santaman]

If the warp engines, window rows and bridge dome are any indication, the Jenolan was about the size of Kirk's original two ships. And the huge black opening aft appears to be a cavernous shuttlebay or cargo hold - indeed, it's difficult to locate any impulse engine (that is, any rocket nozzle shape) on that ship at all, unless it's immediately adjacent to the blue dome atop the hull.

Timo Saloniemi

Umm no, the large black area on the aft of the Jenolan ARE the impulse engines.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/sfvarious1.htm
^^ You can see the seperate nozzles/exhaust pipes in the first picture of the Sydney class.
They are take up almost half of the rear of the ship, which means she must be a real hot rod at impulse power as for size of the sydney, the ship is about 235 meters long.

 

[Praetor]

^Yeah, I don't think they really made changes to that part of the model when they rescaled it into the Jenolan. And that is still fairly tiny compared to the D, even if she is a transport with potentially lots of bulk aboard.

Surely Scotty's boat from TUC was aboard?

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

From the novelization, they suggest that the Jenolan was transporting cargo and a bunch of passengers, including Scott. During the crash, the passenger compartment was torn open and everyone there was killed, and something similar happened on the bridge, killing the rest of the crew. Scotty was in Engineering with Ensign Franklin, which was not as damaged, allowing those two to survive.

Back to the Ambassador, we know they HAVE torpedo bays from dialogue in "Yesterday's Enterprise", though the model has never been seen firing anything of the sort (sorry Timo, in "Emissary" only phaser fire was seen from any ship, though dialogue similary supports the Saratoga having torpedoes). I like the idea of torpedo tubes that are simply hidden behind slideaway doors for whatever reason... And in terms of the lack of phaser coverage aft, if the existing phasers keave blind spot I see no reason they can't have tiny point phaser emitters a la Lakota or Defiant. If the Ambassador was really a pathfinder kind of ship, I see no reason why they can't have a mix of weapons technologies in the design, even as a redundancy in case the fancy new phaser strips don't work out well.

Mark

 

[Praetor]

And in terms of the lack of phaser coverage aft, if the existing phasers leave blind spot I see no reason they can't have tiny point phaser emitters a la Lakota or Defiant. If the Ambassador was really a pathfinder kind of ship, I see no reason why they can't have a mix of weapons technologies in the design, even as a redundancy in case the fancy new phaser strips don't work out well.

Agreed, and a good point - both the Lakota and the Defiant seemed to have phasers coming out of, well, nowhere. Tiny details that don't seem to correspond to phasers we've seen before.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Exactly. Hey, check this uber-awesome photo pictorial of the Ambassador that Doug Drexler, Gary Kerr and Rick Sternbach put together on Drexler's blog. Apologies if it's been posted already:

http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2009/02/01/enterprise-c-pictorial-deluxe/#more-3164

Among things, they retcon the Ambassador's length at 478.5 meters, not 526. Lots of good photos here, and possible weapons emplacements while we're at it...

Mark

 

[Timo]

Regarding the butt end of the Jenolan, people seem to forget that there exists a clear photo of the stern of that vessel, too. Not only is the black area astern a cavernous shuttlebay going deep into the structure, it has a tiny observation deck right above the mouth! It was apparently created by ripping out the row of yellow lights (impulse engine?) from the original model and not filling the cavity with anything.

Now, if I only could locate that photo somewhere... The old IDIC Page had it, but that site is now gone.

The ST6 model was severely and permanently modified for the Jenolan appearance - yet appears completely intact (but repainted) again in ST:GEN, and then appears as the Sydney class Nash in DS9. So apparently there were at least two separate models, of which only one was given the wings and nacelles. Or, more probably, the molds for making the ST6 remained and were used for making the Jenolan's hull later on.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Praetor]

Oh interesting, I'd never seen that photo. My assumptions were based off the idea that they reused it for 'Generations' and then redid it again for DS9 but a second model as confirmed by this photo makes more sense.

I stand corrected.

 

[Santaman]

I happen to have that picture and there are still 9 big exhaust pipes and no shuttle bay whatsoever.

 

[Timo]

Ah, I see... Or, more exactly, I saw. That is, I previously saw a dark cavity in that very photo, whereas turning up the brightness does indeed show a row of black rectangles instead.

Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a row of nine shuttlebay or cargo hold hatches, though. After all, this feature never glows, and it does have that fancy approach control booth thing atop. This would naturally leave us wondering where the impulse engines are if not there, but the underside has some applicable features.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SicOne]

I think someone posted in another thread that they believed the flat panels on the side of the neck slid backwards to reveal two or three rows of dual torpedo tubes.

Regarding aft tubes, I am also thinking a portion of the neck's spine slids up to reveal an aft tube.

In all actuality, though...the torpedo tubes won't be installed until Tuesday.

 

[SicOne]

It is also entirely possible, story-wise, that even though they were seriously outgunned and outnumbered by the Romulans at Narendra 3, the Enterprise-C had the advantage of taking the time to read their sensor readings while hobnobbing with the Ent-D crew to get fixes on the Romulan ship positions (and vulnerable points) so when they went back through the rift, they could just immediately open fire...in 2344, the Romulans' sensors probably flashed all white with all of the energy unleashed in their attack on Ent-C, and when it clears up, there will be Ent-C, lashing out with phasers and torpedos.

 

[Unicron]

Except that the alternate crew of the D didn't have info on the positions of the Romulan ships, because the time shift had removed the battle from their history.

 

[Plecostomus]

Except that the alternate crew of the D didn't have info on the positions of the Romulan ships, because the time shift had removed the battle from their history.

Sensor readings from the Enterprise-C. Last-known position readings and all that.

E-C returns from the rift a fraction of a second after departing with newly refreshed shields and unleashes a volley of weapons fire... This causes the Romulans to suddenly get VERY curious about how the ship was able to instantly regenerate like that... so they set about disabling it and boarding it rather than just blowing it apart.