Alternate universe in the 24th Century

[The_Baroness]

So, how do you think the galaxy would look in the Next-gen era, in the alternate universe.

Tuvok, for example, would likely never have been born, given that most of the Vulcan's were wiped out by Nero.

Would the tensions between the Federation and the Romulans be even stronger?
Maybe the Klingons and the Federation form an alliance sooner in this reality, given the devastation caused to both sides by Nero.

what do you guys think the Alternate universes future looks like?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Should novels set in the JJVerse rectify the film's plot holes?

Tuvok wasn't born on Vulcan. IIRC he's from "Vulcanis Lunar Colony". Or is that T'Pol?

Alternate 24th century will be kinda like prime 24th century, but everything will be shinier and have lens flares, and they'll be more running around and shaky-camera. It's be awesome!

Really, I don't know. It'll be similar, but different. I wonder about the Borg, because the Countdown comic says Nerada was upgraded to the gills with secret Romulan/Borg hybrid technology (and it looked it!). Maybe the Federation will recognize something when they finally meet, having studied the tech for years since the Kelvin attack.

That's if they even bother with starships and don't just Transwarp Beam everywhere. IIRC one of the original TNG concepts was gonna be an almost Stargate-style beam-everywhere-from-a-base thing.

 

[The_Baroness]

Re: Should novels set in the JJVerse rectify the film's plot holes?

Tuvok wasn't born on Vulcan. IIRC he's from "Vulcanis Lunar Colony". Or is that T'Pol?

Maybe so, but we were specifically told that there are only around 10,000 vulcans left alive at the end of the film. He may not have been born on vulcan, but his ancestors must have been at some point. We don't know that they'd moved that colony before Vulcan was destroyed, or that the Colony even existed then.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Should novels set in the JJVerse rectify the film's plot holes?

Vulcans live to be about 250, and Tuvok is old enough to have been on Excelsior with Sulu. He may have already been born when alternate Vulcan was destroyed.

Wasn't there a Voyager episode where a very young Tuvok was studying with a Kolinahr master on Vulcan?

 

[Dukhat]

So, how do you think the galaxy would look in the Next-gen era, in the alternate universe.

Tuvok, for example, would likely never have been born, given that most of the Vulcan's were wiped out by Nero.

Would the tensions between the Federation and the Romulans be even stronger?
Maybe the Klingons and the Federation form an alliance sooner in this reality, given the devastation caused to both sides by Nero.

what do you guys think the Alternate universes future looks like?

Remember Back to the Future II? When 1950's Biff was given the sports almanac from 2015's Biff, which created an alternate 1985 which was completely different from the real 1985? That's essentially what happened here. From the divergence point of the 2230's to the 2250's, Starfleet has reverse-engineered 24th century technology. Like Biff, no one should be able to stand against them, Vulcan destroyed or not. By the time of the 24th century, the timeline would have diverged to such an extent that there'd be little that would be the same. For example, for all we know, this nuEnterprise could have survived to the 24th century without any successor ships.

Of course, the real truth about how the 24th century would be like would solely be based on what the writers of some future production set in the nuUniverse make it to be, whether it makes logical sense or not.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Should novels set in the JJVerse rectify the film's plot holes?

Maybe so, but we were specifically told that there are only around 10,000 vulcans left alive at the end of the film.

The 10,000 refers to natives who were rescued *from* Vulcan. That doesn't count those who were already living off world when it was destroyed. The writers have said so.

As for Tuvok, he was indeed born on the Vulcanis Lunar Colony. We have no idea where that is, BTW. It could be *Earth's* moon for all we know...

But he wasn't born yet when ST XI happens (2258). Tuvok won't be born for about six years - Memory Alpha says he was born in 2264.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Should novels set in the JJVerse rectify the film's plot holes?

The 10,000 refers to natives who were rescued *from* Vulcan. That doesn't count those who were already living off world when it was destroyed.

Spock: " I estimate no more than ten thousand have survived. I am now a member of an endangered species. "

Spock, it would seem, is stating that there are ten thousand Vulcan's left in the entire Vulcan species. If there were hundreds of thousands or millions of Vulcans alive after the destruction of the planet then the species/race would hardly be considered "endangered," and Spock of all people would not have used this term.

In a strange way this might actual improve relations with the Romulans. A portion of the animosity between the Federation and the Romulans lays in the desire to reunite all the Vulcanoid people. At one point during TNG, the Romulans tried to invade Vulcan. Although there are other problems of course. In terms of numbers, the majority of Vulcanoids (during Star Trek) have always been Romulans. With so few Vulcans left, this particular point of contention is gone.

 

[Dukhat]

Re: Should novels set in the JJVerse rectify the film's plot holes?

Spock, it would seem, is stating that there are ten thousand Vulcans left in the entire Vulcan species.

Yes, that's the implication I got from the movie too. Despite being Federation members, I always felt the Vulcans were an insular race, confined mostly to their home planet. This reinforces that idea.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Should novels set in the JJVerse rectify the film's plot holes?

Spock: " I estimate no more than ten thousand have survived. I am now a member of an endangered species. "

Spock, it would seem, is stating that there are ten thousand Vulcan's left in the entire Vulcan species. If there were hundreds of thousands or millions of Vulcans alive after the destruction of the planet then the species/race would hardly be considered "endangered," and Spock of all people would not have used this term.

A few things about that:

- Spock himself would have no way of knowing how many Vulcans were living offworld at that time.

- Even if he had, he wasn't exactly thinking straight.

- As I said, the *writers* of the film have confirmed that the 10,000 does not include Vulcans who weren't there at the time. So there could be ANY number of survivors now.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Of course Spock is ignoring the fact that there's a billion or so Romulans alive and well on Romulus. It seems strange to consider a group of people that split from the homeworld a seperate species but he'd know better than I would.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

First, I think that 10,000 was simply Spock's best guess. I mean, it's not like conditions were ideal for taking a census or anything.

And as for Tuvok, we have no way of knowing where his parents (who presumably were alive) were at the time of Vulcan's destruction. Could have been off-world. Who knows?

As for the original question, I think the MU could be pretty much anything. After all, it is nothing more than yet another alternate reality. I don't even think that any of 'our' characters need to be evil versions of themselves.

Although seeing Zack Quinto as Evil Spock a la Sylar would be fairly entertaining.

 

[T'Girl]

As I said, the *writers* of the film have confirmed thast the 10,000 does not include Vulcans who weren't there at the time. So there could be ANY number of survivors now.

Of course what the writers say in interviews and commentaries has no impact upon on-screen canon.

Of course Spock is ignoring the fact that there's a billion or so Romulans alive and well on Romulus. It seems strange to consider a group of people that split from the homeworld a seperate species but he'd know better than I would.

There would be a difference between a Vulcan and a Vulcanoid. The majority (not all) of Vulcans from the planet Vulcan would seem to of a single ethnicity. The Romulans, while Vulcanoid, appear to possesses a quite different ethnicity. Maybe this is an example of the difference between species and race.

Depending on the actual size of the Romulan Star Empire, the Romulans most likely exist in the many tens of billions.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Or, the Romulans aren't there any more either. Maybe they were wiped out sometime between Nero's arrival and the main timeframe of the movie. Maybe the 10,000 includes the remaining Romulans.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Well if you accept the "temporal course correction" the writers wanted to include in the original script (pertaining to Old Spock and Kirk meeting on Delta Vega), then the universe has a lot of work to do to get the Vulcan people back on their feet. Perhaps the new Vulcan colony will experience amazing population growth after discovering a drug that induces Pon Farr twice a day.*

*(This may or may not be the plotline of Vulcan Love Slave II.)

 

[F. King Daniel]

Actually I kinda saw the destruction of Vulcan as part of that "timeline repairing itself" thing. A planetful of Romulans die in one universe, so a planetful of Vulcans die in the other. Cosmic balance.

(and before anyone says anything, it's likely that with Spock Prime around, and the warnings given Kirk and Pike, alternate Romulus will be evacuated come this 2387)

 

[C.E. Evans]

IMO, there's no guarantee that the 24th-Century will be anything like that we saw in the Prime Universe. Here, there might not be an Enterprise-D in 2364, and Jean-Luc Picard never went on to command a ship called Enterprise at all. For all intents and purposes, the TNG in this universe could feature a reimagined Galaxy-class "Enterprise IV" with a female captain, IMO.

This future isn't written in stone and major events in the Prime Universe may never happen here or happen very differently...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Of course Spock is ignoring the fact that there's a billion or so Romulans alive and well on Romulus. It seems strange to consider a group of people that split from the homeworld a seperate species but he'd know better than I would.

Even in the Prime Universe Spock seems to be the only Vulcan keen on Reunification. I dont think the Vulcans have a high opinion of the Romulans. They might see them as poor relations, to be pitied and ignored. "Sure they look like us, but would you want your sister to marry one?"

 

[kkozoriz1]

They are, however, the same species. If the Federation didn't know what Romulans looked like then it would make sense for Spock to say that. As it is, it's just silly. "My species is going to die out because all that's left are people that I'm not fond of."

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The whole thing is wide open, that's the beauty of it. TNG, DS9 and VOY can be rebooted so that only the good stuff stays, and the bad stuff is retconned out of existence. No old grannies as starship captains. No boring holier-than-thou Federation lectures at the obviously-wrong aliens. No stiff, no-conflict Stepford Starfleet crew. No Sacrifice of Angels without an actual sacrifice. No red-eye Dukat. No Dominion War that the Feds win for no good reason just because it's time to end the series and the producers are too chicken to let the Dominion win. No easily-tamed Stepford Maquis. No butchering the Borg through overuse and having Janeway beat them every second Tuesday. No Starship Cornucopia. No Barbie of Borg.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They are, however, the same species.

Not anymore.