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Alternate Timeline! (a.k.a. Everyone can chill out now!)

I think it's an Ok thing to set it in another universe. Essenttially making it a canon reboot within canon (head explodes).


So it takes place in a different universe. I don't see how this makes it automatically something we can't care about. This new universe is no more or less real than the old one, or any other piece of fiction.
 
^^^ I am a fan of the idea this is a sequel to the TNG films, while being a prequel to all of Star Trek.

Kind of an interesting loop in time.
 
If it tries to step on TOS, it better have good balence.
xortex, quoting a lengthy post entire to make a response of one short sentence which relates to it tenuously at best is considered a bit off. Edit the quoted post to reflect the part(s) to which you wish to respond and leave the rest out; it makes your answer more clear and it doesn't require others to re-read several paragraphs trying to figure out what you're replying to.

If it's gonna try to step on TOS, it better have good balance.
Doing the same thing again, to make a minor revision to your sentence, well... I can only presume that was not what you intended, but please do be more careful about it.
 
I'd say something, but even if it was lulzy the mods would probably slap a warning on me anyway since I'm evil or something. :rolleyes:
Mmmmnnoooo...who am I kidding. You're probably right. I never skip an opportunity to slap evil incarnate. :p


It's easy to tell when a thread is winding down, once the thread bombs come out. (Not specifically directed at you X, just an observation I've noticed over the years.)
 
I preferred a reboot to begin with. A reboot starts everything over from scratch while a prequel is supposed to lead into what we already know.
Yes, and that's the problem here. That's why I wanted a prequel, not a reboot. I wanted to see unchronicled history of characters we know and love -- not alternate versions of those characters. This isn't Star Trek, so much as it's something new and different with a Star Trek label hung on it.
We'll probably end up agreeing to disagree but I'll still offer my point of view just to clarify why I have the opinion I have.
Well, thanks for taking the time. Let me reciprocate...

If it were a one-time thing, I wouldn't have a problem with a prequel, but as a long-term direction it's a problem. With Star Trek, Paramount is not interested in a one-time thing. This movie is to be the basis for continuing the movies.

If ST XI is a failure, then that's it. No story to continue.
That would be fine with me, actually. I couldn't care less where Paramount makes its money, and Trek (TOS-era Trek, in particular) has done okay for the last 17 years in prose form.

If you have a prequel series and you start with Kirk and Spock as cadets and work your way up to the point where they're both serving on the Enterprise, and the movies stop before you get to the TOS status quo, then the story you wanted to tell never gets completed.
I don't really follow you here, because I'm not sure what you mean by "the story you wanted to tell." If the story you wanted to tell is "what happened before TOS," then you've done just fine. OTOH, if your goal is "retell TOS," then yeah, you'd have a problem.

However, there's lots of fodder for films before TOS. If I understand correctly, this film is set during Pike's era, when Kirk is still an Academy cadet—i.e., mid-2250s. If it ends with him leapfrogging from that to captaincy (in anything other than a flash-forward), I'll feel cheated. Future stories could be about, e.g, Kirk's time on the Farragut (perhaps meeting up with Pike's ENT on a mission); the handover of the ENT from Pike to Kirk (never detailed except in novels and comics, lackluster on both occasions); and of course Kirk's early days as captain, both before and after the events of WNMHGB (months on either side there, fodder for quite a few movies). (I'd like to see more backstory on Kirk's friendship with Gary Mitchell, for example, and how that affected his early relationship with Spock.)

That'd easily get you through a half-dozen movies, and if they're still making films with this cast that far along, the (ahem) enterprise would obviously be an unqualified success.

If this type of ST XI is a success, then you go beyond the origin story and overlap into actual TOS.
Why? I've just detailed why the need to do that could easily be 10 or 15 years off.

Now you have a movie series that's actually weaving in and out of the TV series. Blending into the series is harder than simply being faithful to it and requires a lot more suspension of disbelief.
Why? It never had particularly tight episode-to-episode continuity.

Plus, what happens when you run out of the TOS era and Paramount still wants to continue making movies? Do you go onto TMP?...
Sure, why not? I don't think it's ever been firmly stated on screen, but "fanon" consensus for years now has been that Kirk and crew had another entire five-year mission after TMP. Wide-open territory there. You could just leapfrog the entire TOS era; the cast would certainly be old enough at that point.

In the future, I think Star Trek on TV and Star Trek in the movies should be kept as seperate and far away from each other as possible, so as to not dilute each other or step on each other's toes.
I just think the toe-stepping you're imagining is completely hypothetical and easily avoidable.
 
Besides, the original timeline in 'Yesterday's Enterprise' (you know, the one without Sela, and where Yar died on Vagra II) was never restored. Ever since YE, we've been in an altered timeline. There is precedent for this kind of storytelling in Trek before.
What makes you believe that there was ever a timeline without Sela?

When Picard and crew first meets Sela, she's at least 22 years old, so she must have been alive long before the first episode of TNG.

Don't confuse chronology with causality.

The Borg Queen said:
You think in such three-dimensional terms. How small you've become.
 
In fact, with the theory that each timeline is another universe means that every Star Trek series and a fair number of episodes are set in different universes.
 
That's been the subject of a fair bit of discussion in a few threads lately. Look around for posts by Trekguide.com for more details. Makes for some interesting discussion.
 
I still debate people on whether Cochrane in "Metamorphosis(TOS)" remembered Starfleet and the Federation when Kirk and his officers landed on his planetoid in 2267. Technically, Cochrane had memories of Picard and his 1701-E crew as well as the Borg once the "original" 2063 events were restored. That now means if you believe that way that Cochrane knew about the 24th century(at least a little of it)when he met Kirk...he just kept it to himself.
 
Cochrane may have been a fair bit older, and perhaps a little senile when he disappeared.

The Companion helped restore him physically, bout could not restore lost memories.

Ergo: Cochrane had no idea about the 24th Century.
 
Cochrane may have been a fair bit older, and perhaps a little senile when he disappeared.

The Companion helped restore him physically, bout could not restore lost memories.

Ergo: Cochrane had no idea about the 24th Century.

Or after 150 years on the planetoid has simply forgotten most what he once saw and heard. 2267 was over two hundred years after First Contact. I can barely remember what drawer I put crap in on some days.
 
So it takes place in a different universe. I don't see how this makes it automatically something we can't care about. This new universe is no more or less real than the old one, or any other piece of fiction.

As long as Dr. Helen Noel is in this one, too, I guess you're right. But if she's not -- .
 
In fact, with the theory that each timeline is another universe means that every Star Trek series and a fair number of episodes are set in different universes.

This is the precedent that New Trek Order (post Berman) seems to be rallying behind.

And we're all trying to come to terms with it.

Let's see if we can before Christmas dinner! :D
 
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