Alternate Timeline! (a.k.a. Everyone can chill out now!)

[BillJ]

I pretty much agree with Lawman. If it is a new universe from the point that Nero arrives in the 23rd century, why do I care if it's set straight? Why does it need to be set straight?

From a drama point of view, I think calling it another universe is a bad move. If there are 100,000 universes with various versions of me in it, who cares if one is pushed off course?

why should you care if Kirk survived his fight with Gary mitchell... I mean it was a new show, a new universe no one knew about.... Until they watched the damn story..


Oh wait that's logic

I mean you do understand that no one KNEW who James R.. I mean T. Kirk was when WNMHGB premired on NBC back in the sixties. It was something new, it didn't have a fan base. So I think we all really need to drop the bias, if anything is condescending and insulting it's the fact that the people who like the old trek which when it originally appeared was something new and unknow are trying to bully the new version out of the way because it's giving a new take on something that intially was lucky to survive it's first two seasons on tv...

Whoa... way to fucking over-react!

Do you even understand what I'm trying to say? It has nothing to do with old vs. new. It has to do with the movie having a possibly flawed dramatic premise. If the future isn't at stake, who the hell cares? Whether it's Star Trek, Doctor Who or Back to the Future. If it's a completely new timeline Nero can take an army of android soldiers to the dawn of humanity and set up shop and it'll have no effect on our heroes.

 

[trekkerguy]

If there are 100,000 universes with various versions of me in it, who cares if one is pushed off course?

*Shoves BillJ off cliff* Perhaps you would?

Touche.

I'm talking about the viewing audience.

I figured, but it was fun anyway, at least for me.

 

[Qonos]

I pretty much agree with Lawman. If it is a new universe from the point that Nero arrives in the 23rd century, why do I care if it's set straight? Why does it need to be set straight?

From a drama point of view, I think calling it another universe is a bad move. If there are 100,000 universes with various versions of me in it, who cares if one is pushed off course?

why should you care if Kirk survived his fight with Gary mitchell... I mean it was a new show, a new universe no one knew about.... Until they watched the damn story..


Oh wait that's logic

I mean you do understand that no one KNEW who James R.. I mean T. Kirk was when WNMHGB premired on NBC back in the sixties. It was something new, it didn't have a fan base. So I think we all really need to drop the bias, if anything is condescending and insulting it's the fact that the people who like the old trek which when it originally appeared was something new and unknow are trying to bully the new version out of the way because it's giving a new take on something that intially was lucky to survive it's first two seasons on tv...

Whoa... way to fucking over-react!

Do you even understand what I'm trying to say? It has nothing to do with old vs. new. It has to do with the movie having a possibly flawed dramatic premise. If the future isn't at stake, who the hell cares? Whether it's Star Trek, Doctor Who or Back to the Future. If it's a completely new timeline Nero can take an army of android soldiers to the dawn of humanity and set up shop and it'll have no effect on our heroes.

But you're also saying why should I care about something I haven't seen yet. I'm not the one overreacting you are.


And Lawman It's not logically flawed what I said. It's the fact that anythin new should be given it's chance to shine first then be critisized after the finished product has been viewed. It's called Objectivity, people in the trek fandom should try it sometime....

 

[BillJ]

why should you care if Kirk survived his fight with Gary mitchell... I mean it was a new show, a new universe no one knew about.... Until they watched the damn story..


Oh wait that's logic

I mean you do understand that no one KNEW who James R.. I mean T. Kirk was when WNMHGB premired on NBC back in the sixties. It was something new, it didn't have a fan base. So I think we all really need to drop the bias, if anything is condescending and insulting it's the fact that the people who like the old trek which when it originally appeared was something new and unknow are trying to bully the new version out of the way because it's giving a new take on something that intially was lucky to survive it's first two seasons on tv...

Whoa... way to fucking over-react!

Do you even understand what I'm trying to say? It has nothing to do with old vs. new. It has to do with the movie having a possibly flawed dramatic premise. If the future isn't at stake, who the hell cares? Whether it's Star Trek, Doctor Who or Back to the Future. If it's a completely new timeline Nero can take an army of android soldiers to the dawn of humanity and set up shop and it'll have no effect on our heroes.

But you're also saying why should I care about something I haven't seen yet. I'm not the one overreacting you are.


And Lawman It's not logically flawed what I said. It's the fact that anythin new should be given it's chance to shine first then be critisized after the finished product has been viewed. It's called Objectivity, people in the trek fandom should try it sometime....

Let's look at it objectively...

Writers who work on shitty summer blockbusters - Check
Director who has already done lackluster interpretation of TV property - Check
Re-use of way overused time travel - Check
Dry Humping to Represent 'Sexy' - Check
Kewl Special Effects - Check

Looks like a turd to me. But, I'll still be there opening night. If I like it I'll admit it.

I don't expect Shakespeare, but I do expect it to resemble Star Trek on more than just a superficial level.

 

[trekkerguy]

^^^ Again, all opinion. I find their work to be quite good and anything JJ Abrams has made has been both creative and fun.

But that's my opinion, and just like yours, can't be said as if it is fact.

 

[BillJ]

Well, tell me where I'm wrong.

Transformers wasn't exactly a dramatic masterpiece. It was held together by the special effects.

Mission Impossible III was underwhelming, I fished the DVD out of a five dollar bin at Wal-Mart before I heard about JJ Abrams and Star Trek. I believe it barely made at the box office what it cost.

Voyager and Enterprise, I just said enough regarding time travel.

Chris Pine dry humping a Orion chick - that would've got me all hot and bothered in the third grade.

Space Octopus/ Space Drill... Kewl special effects.

Hell... I hope the movie makes $500 million at the box office. But I'm thinking it does $50 million its first weekend and is never heard from again.

 

[trekkerguy]

Well, tell me where I'm wrong.

Transformers wasn't exactly a dramatic masterpiece. It was held together by the special effects.

Mission Impossible III was underwhelming, I fished the DVD out of a five dollar bin at Wal-Mart before I head about JJ Abrams and Star Trek. I believe it barely made at the box office what it cost.

Voyager and Enterprise, I just said enough regarding time travel.

Chris Pine dry humping a Orion chick - that would've got me all hot and bothered in the third grade.

Space Octopus/ Space Drill... Kewl special effects.

Hell... I hope the movie makes $500 million at the box office. But I'm thinking it does $50 million its first weekend and is never heard from again.

Didn't say you're wrong, it's your opinion, it can't be wrong it can only differ from mine.

My views on those pieces of entertainment are exactly the opposite of yours. Neither of us are wrong.

 

[BillJ]

Well, tell me where I'm wrong.

Transformers wasn't exactly a dramatic masterpiece. It was held together by the special effects.

Mission Impossible III was underwhelming, I fished the DVD out of a five dollar bin at Wal-Mart before I head about JJ Abrams and Star Trek. I believe it barely made at the box office what it cost.

Voyager and Enterprise, I just said enough regarding time travel.

Chris Pine dry humping a Orion chick - that would've got me all hot and bothered in the third grade.

Space Octopus/ Space Drill... Kewl special effects.

Hell... I hope the movie makes $500 million at the box office. But I'm thinking it does $50 million its first weekend and is never heard from again.

Didn't say you're wrong, it's your opinion, it can't be wrong it can only differ from mine.

My views on those pieces of entertainment are exactly the opposite of yours. Neither of us are wrong.

Well... you can sometimes predict the future based on prior trends, sometimes you can't. Maybe it's the perfect storm and the movie is much more than the sum of its parts. Maybe Pine gives such a great performance that it'll overcome any shortfalls in the script.

As much as I love Star Trek, I've just got a bad feeling about this movie.

And, it's just a feeling at this point. But sometimes you go with your gut in lieu of other information.

 

[trekkerguy]

Like I said, we have different views on it.

See, I look at who wrote it and who is directing/producing it
and it gets me more excited for it based on their prior work.

Same for the acting, I watched "Just My Luck" to get a shot
of Chris Pine's acting and he seemed pretty good, not like he
has some amazingly talented actor(William Shatner) to have
to live up to . Karl Urban in just the one little line he has in
the trailer seems to have captured the essence of "Bones"
perfectly IMO. And the rest of the cast looks great aswell, IMO.

In the end, I see hope and excitement where you see worry.

But it's all good, we need all types of views to get through it.
If only for something to do till it's out.

 

[Ovation]

Whoa... way to fucking over-react!

Do you even understand what I'm trying to say? It has nothing to do with old vs. new. It has to do with the movie having a possibly flawed dramatic premise. If the future isn't at stake, who the hell cares? Whether it's Star Trek, Doctor Who or Back to the Future. If it's a completely new timeline Nero can take an army of android soldiers to the dawn of humanity and set up shop and it'll have no effect on our heroes.

But you're also saying why should I care about something I haven't seen yet. I'm not the one overreacting you are.


And Lawman It's not logically flawed what I said. It's the fact that anythin new should be given it's chance to shine first then be critisized after the finished product has been viewed. It's called Objectivity, people in the trek fandom should try it sometime....

Let's look at it objectively...

Writers who work on shitty summer blockbusters - Check

Opinion, not fact.

Director who has already done lackluster interpretation of TV property - Check

Opinion, not fact.

Re-use of way overused time travel - Check

Opinion, not fact.

Dry Humping to Represent 'Sexy' - Check

Opinion, not fact.

Kewl Special Effects - Check

Opinion, not fact.

Even if some people hold the same opinion as you do on one or more of the above points, they remain subjective, not objective.

Looks like a turd to me. But, I'll still be there opening night. If I like it I'll admit it.

I don't expect Shakespeare, but I do expect it to resemble Star Trek on more than just a superficial level.

Again, more subjectivity. There is so little in pop culture entertainment that can be evaluated from an objective point of view that it is usually foolish to try. How it performs at the box office will provide an objective indication of its general popularity, but, beyond that, most comments will be in the subjective (positive or negative) realm. Let's not pretend otherwise.

 

[Qonos]

Well, tell me where I'm wrong.

Transformers wasn't exactly a dramatic masterpiece. It was held together by the special effects.

Mission Impossible III was underwhelming, I fished the DVD out of a five dollar bin at Wal-Mart before I head about JJ Abrams and Star Trek. I believe it barely made at the box office what it cost.

Voyager and Enterprise, I just said enough regarding time travel.

Chris Pine dry humping a Orion chick - that would've got me all hot and bothered in the third grade.

Space Octopus/ Space Drill... Kewl special effects.

Hell... I hope the movie makes $500 million at the box office. But I'm thinking it does $50 million its first weekend and is never heard from again.

Didn't say you're wrong, it's your opinion, it can't be wrong it can only differ from mine.

My views on those pieces of entertainment are exactly the opposite of yours. Neither of us are wrong.

Well... you can sometimes predict the future based on prior trends, sometimes you can't. Maybe it's the perfect storm and the movie is much more than the sum of its parts. Maybe Pine gives such a great performance that it'll overcome any shortfalls in the script.

As much as I love Star Trek, I've just got a bad feeling about this movie.

And, it's just a feeling at this point. But sometimes you go with your gut in lieu of other information.

I don't know I thought TF was a good film for what it was and was based on.

but good points Bill

 

[ClayHefner]

Didn't JJ Abrams say ST XI would be a story he always wanted to tell?
Somehow I think he wasn't talking about time travel stuff and space octopi, nor Romulans.
Maybe he wanted to show how Kirk became the leader he is in TOS (while not knowing all the canon details), so they now had to weave some time travel/alternate universe story around it to make it happen.

 

[BillJ]

Didn't say you're wrong, it's your opinion, it can't be wrong it can only differ from mine.

My views on those pieces of entertainment are exactly the opposite of yours. Neither of us are wrong.

Well... you can sometimes predict the future based on prior trends, sometimes you can't. Maybe it's the perfect storm and the movie is much more than the sum of its parts. Maybe Pine gives such a great performance that it'll overcome any shortfalls in the script.

As much as I love Star Trek, I've just got a bad feeling about this movie.

And, it's just a feeling at this point. But sometimes you go with your gut in lieu of other information.

I don't know I thought TF was a good film for what it was and was based on.

but good points Bill

It's not that it was a terrible movie. But it felt like empty calories... I forgot about it ten minutes after I finished watching it. I don't want Star Trek to become empty summer calories.

I think a bit more highly of Star Trek.

 

[trekkerguy]

I was thinking about how much I couldn't wait for the sequel for months after seeing Transformers several times in IMAX

And guess what? We get both Trek and Transformers in the same summer

 

[BillJ]

I was thinking about how much I couldn't wait for the sequel for months after seeing Transformers several times in IMAX

And guess what? We get both Trek and Transformers in the same summer

I'm sure it was stunning in IMAX. Maybe it would've had more of an impact if I had... but I doubt it.

 

[Qonos]

I was thinking about how much I couldn't wait for the sequel for months after seeing Transformers several times in IMAX

And guess what? We get both Trek and Transformers in the same summer

I'm sure it was stunning in IMAX. Maybe it would've had more of an impact if I had... but I doubt it.

Eh, Who knows I found some subtle layers in the movie that other missed, but then again It didn't take me watching the Third matrix movie to get the Architects speech from the second, pretty much knew the whole series was about choice.

 

[trekkerguy]

We'll just end up going in circles over this, so I'll just close my view of Transformers
with the fact I liked it alot, thought it had a great story, cool cast and of course great FX.

When judging these writers on their previous works remember,
they were writing a script for a film based on toys.

I would suggest looking into their more serious Scifi ventures such as "Fringe",
"Alias" and "Lost" and getting a better feel for their writing abilities from those.

 

[Captain X]

But you're also saying why should I care about something I haven't seen yet. I'm not the one overreacting you are.


And Lawman It's not logically flawed what I said. It's the fact that anythin new should be given it's chance to shine first then be critisized after the finished product has been viewed. It's called Objectivity, people in the trek fandom should try it sometime....

Let's look at it objectively...

Writers who work on shitty summer blockbusters - Check

Opinion, not fact.Opinion, not fact.Opinion, not fact.Opinion, not fact.

Kewl Special Effects - Check

Opinion, not fact.

Even if some people hold the same opinion as you do on one or more of the above points, they remain subjective, not objective.

Looks like a turd to me. But, I'll still be there opening night. If I like it I'll admit it.

I don't expect Shakespeare, but I do expect it to resemble Star Trek on more than just a superficial level.

Again, more subjectivity. There is so little in pop culture entertainment that can be evaluated from an objective point of view that it is usually foolish to try. How it performs at the box office will provide an objective indication of its general popularity, but, beyond that, most comments will be in the subjective (positive or negative) realm. Let's not pretend otherwise.

And everything you say is just your opinion and not fact. Don't you just feel special now?

 

[The]

Well, tell me where I'm wrong.

As others have said, you can't be wrong when it comes to an opinion. You can have an "informed" opinion, but it doesn't make it any more or less valid.

Transformers wasn't exactly a dramatic masterpiece. It was held together by the special effects.

I don't know, ask the age group he's aiming Star Trek at and you might find a different perspective/answer.

It's not that it was a terrible movie. But it felt like empty calories... I forgot about it ten minutes after I finished watching it. I don't want Star Trek to become empty summer calories.

I think a bit more highly of Star Trek.

And while I applaud you finely-crafted taste in media, I certainly hope you don't find high art in the paper-thin moral platitudes of a Trek script. I don't want "Independence Day II" either. But, Trek isn't exactly a literary masterpiece...

Mission Impossible III was underwhelming, I fished the DVD out of a five dollar bin at Wal-Mart before I heard about JJ Abrams and Star Trek. I believe it barely made at the box office what it cost.

And yet many have stated it's the best of the three. But, that's their opinion...

Voyager and Enterprise, I just said enough regarding time travel.

Some Time Travel fans would disagree. I know a lot Doctor Who fans that are attracted to the concept based solely on the idea that he time travels. So, to each their own...

Chris Pine dry humping a Orion chick - that would've got me all hot and bothered in the third grade.

Again, you're not the age group or demographic he's interested in hooking. He wants the tweens and the like to dig this new Trek. That's an entire new generation of franchise babies to milk right there. Just as it was back in the 80's when "The Next Generation" came out.

Also, just to be said, the "dry-humping" scene you are referring to is about a quarter-of-a-second of the movie trailer. Not that I think a full-on sex scene will take place. However, you should probably wait and see the full scene first before passing judgement.

Space Octopus/ Space Drill... Kewl special effects.

That's your opinion, one that many will disagree with...

Hell... I hope the movie makes $500 million at the box office. But I'm thinking it does $50 million its first weekend and is never heard from again.

You might be right. However, given your next statement, I sincerely doubt that...

But, I'll still be there opening night.

And this is exactly what Abrams & Co. are aiming for...

 

[cooleddie74]

Didn't JJ Abrams say ST XI would be a story he always wanted to tell?
Somehow I think he wasn't talking about time travel stuff and space octopi, nor Romulans.
Maybe he wanted to show how Kirk became the leader he is in TOS (while not knowing all the canon details), so they now had to weave some time travel/alternate universe story around it to make it happen.

I'm getting the feeling this is how it went at first. Then canonical details leaked in after the ball got rolling and he only kept what he felt jibed with his new time-travel storyline.