Airlock Janeway
- Thread starter ZeNd
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Not really, it's just more evidence that the writers just completely disregarded what had been previously established about the characters. They changed the characters however they had to in order to make the (usually badly written) story work...
On a similar vein i personally believe Paris's insubordination during the Investigations arc in Season 2 was unintentional, and the writers suddenly thought "oh crap, he's in the brig what do we do?"
On a similar vein i personally believe Paris's insubordination during the Investigations arc in Season 2 was unintentional, and the writers suddenly thought "oh crap, he's in the brig what do we do?"
I thought this was a question if she should be shoved out an air lock! And my answer would be yes, but then beam her back in
^^ Disagree with the season 2 thing. They ad the Jonas storyline already started when the insubordination got going. They probably didn't know how to resolve that in one episode unless they did some ground work first.
As for Janeway, she was a very randomly written character. At least according to me, many others have other interpretations.
As for Janeway, she was a very randomly written character. At least according to me, many others have other interpretations.
I thought this was a question if she should be shoved out an air lock! And my answer would be yes, but then beam her back in
Why?
I'm a fan of Janeway, but her actions here were...erratic and evil.
There really isn't any excuse for her behavior.
Based on this incident alone she should have been court martialed and thrown in a Federation prison upon returning to the Alpha Quadrant.
Did the senior staff know what she did here? If so, how the hell do they let torture slide? Wouldn't Tuvok at least have a problem with something like that? Or Harry?
There really isn't any excuse for her behavior.
Based on this incident alone she should have been court martialed and thrown in a Federation prison upon returning to the Alpha Quadrant.
Did the senior staff know what she did here? If so, how the hell do they let torture slide? Wouldn't Tuvok at least have a problem with something like that? Or Harry?
The Double Standard really is lovely isn't it? They keep complaining that TNG Era humans are "too perfect" and should be more like the characters from nuBSG yet here Janeway acts like the prototype for Roslin and gets nothing but criticism.
^ Don't know if you're referring to me, but I don't even like BSG, nu or otherwise. And I've never bought into the whole "TNG characters are too perfect" thing either.
I'm just saying by the Janeway's own standards and the standards of Starfleet she committed a horrific crime.
I'm just saying by the Janeway's own standards and the standards of Starfleet she committed a horrific crime.
Maybe she read about the time it worked for Archer in the expanse?
If you're referring to the questioning of Noah Lessing I think "horrific crime" is going a bit overboard. The ones who had committed the "horrific crime" were Ransom, Lessing and the rest of the crew. Not only did they commit genocide but they left another Starfleet crew to pay the price for their transgressions. Add in the torture of Seven, the reprogramming of the Doc and ... well, I need not go on.
I remember being so pissed at the end of Part 1 that I hoped Janeway would come back at the beginning of the next season and "kick some Equinox butt". I knew in the opening scene when she was carrying "Betsey" that I would get my wish.
There's nothing more frightening to modern man than an angry woman. I understand that and can sympathize with you. In this case though the anger was justified.
If you're referring to the questioning of Noah Lessing I think "horrific crime" is going a bit overboard. The ones who had committed the "horrific crime" were Ransom, Lessing and the rest of the crew. Not only did they commit genocide but they left another Starfleet crew to pay the price for their transgressions. Add in the torture of Seven, the reprogramming of the Doc and ... well, I need not go on.
I remember being so pissed at the end of Part 1 that I hoped Janeway would come back at the beginning of the next season and "kick some Equinox butt". I knew in the opening scene when she was carrying "Betsey" that I would get my wish.
There's nothing more frightening to modern man than an angry woman. I understand that and can sympathize with you. In this case though the anger was justified.
I agree that the Equinox crew did horrible things and deserved to be punished.
But Janeway tortured this man and threatened to kill him. She had every right to be angry, but she had no right to do this. It really doesn't matter what their crimes were, her actions were unjustified. Janeway made a big deal throughout the series of sticking to Starfleet's ideals, but she threw all of that away here in a moment of anger. I don't see any excuse here.
I maintain that torture and threats of death against someone no matter what they've done should result in a court martial at the very least.
Using destro's standards we should also expect to see Picard courtsmartial for "almost" ordering his own crew to their death in "First Contact". If Janeway gets it, so does Picard, and even Kirk, Sisko, and Archer for their various transgressions.
Janeway at least had the excuse of being angry at the treatment of another sentient beings, Picard was angry over what had been done to him personally. His actions were unjustified too.
Brit
Janeway at least had the excuse of being angry at the treatment of another sentient beings, Picard was angry over what had been done to him personally. His actions were unjustified too.
Brit
But Picard noticed that his anger was making him stupid. We saw the process. Him and Lilly. It was quite touching and explained the complete shift in the stories focal point. With Janeway talking to Chuckles after the fact she made it more clear that she wasn't bluffing and that that was attempted murder and if he didn't like it, the he should shut the hells up and accept that she is above the law or he's next. She didn't realize she she was wrong, steady her course or try to make amends, in fact every action every action she took was utterly Nixonian (Fuck you Simpsons! If you have to ask, then you obviously have a life worth living.).
So basically it comes down to they did it so she gets to do it, nice justification you got there
If you're referring to the questioning of Noah Lessing I think "horrific crime" is going a bit overboard. The ones who had committed the "horrific crime" were Ransom, Lessing and the rest of the crew. Not only did they commit genocide but they left another Starfleet crew to pay the price for their transgressions. Add in the torture of Seven, the reprogramming of the Doc and ... well, I need not go on.
I remember being so pissed at the end of Part 1 that I hoped Janeway would come back at the beginning of the next season and "kick some Equinox butt". I knew in the opening scene when she was carrying "Betsey" that I would get my wish.
There's nothing more frightening to modern man than an angry woman. I understand that and can sympathize with you. In this case though the anger was justified.
I agree that the Equinox crew did horrible things and deserved to be punished.
But Janeway tortured this man and threatened to kill him. She had every right to be angry, but she had no right to do this. It really doesn't matter what their crimes were, her actions were unjustified. Janeway made a big deal throughout the series of sticking to Starfleet's ideals, but she threw all of that away here in a moment of anger. I don't see any excuse here.
I maintain that torture and threats of death against someone no matter what they've done should result in a court martial at the very least.
You say "torture" as if she were waterboarding the guy. That's hardly the case...
That was not how the episode ended. When she and Chakotay were standing on the bridge she acknowledged that she had let her anger get the best of her.
Again, I know nothing is more frightening than an angry woman to us here in the 21st century but keep in mind this is supposed to be an enlightened time where women have just as much of a right to get angry as men. Just as Kirk and Picard got pissed off now and then so did Janeway.
You know it just occured to me that if Kirk or Picard were in that situation Kirk would have had Spock perform a mind meld to find out what he needed to know and Picard would have had Troi read his feelings.
Now I suppose Janeway could have had Tuvok do a mind meld on Lessing instead of trying to scare him but I'm wondering if that would be better or worse. Reading someone's mind without their consent sounds like mind rape to me.
Now I suppose Janeway could have had Tuvok do a mind meld on Lessing instead of trying to scare him but I'm wondering if that would be better or worse. Reading someone's mind without their consent sounds like mind rape to me.
You must have figured out by now that I am not attracted to Kathryn, which means she gets treated like a person rather than an object or even a woman. Hells, I am so not attracted to her I often think of her as a man just to save time.
So why keep bringing up her sex?
(You should see me bitch about Archer, and I'm almost certain that has nothing to do with his gender.)
Telepathic violation is just nasty, hells, did you see how Neelix almost back handed that kid across the cargo deck who wouldn't let him tell his story because s/he kept jumping ahead of the hedgehogs meandering thoughts?
Do I recall an episode were Tuvok refused to Meld?
Might have been somewhere else with some one else.
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Imagine if Picard, Kirk, or Sisko had done this (I don't say Archer, because I prefer to forget that series ever existed). Would you still say she had behaved any worse than any of those captains at their worst stressful command situation?
The thing is, the aliens could literally appear out of thin air ANYWHERE, with very little warning, and were very quick killers. This adds a level of stress and fear that temporarily overshadowed Janeway's training that she had to deal with the stresses of command. Yes, the more reasonable solution would have been a mindmeld or the 24th c. equivalent of "truth serum." But as pointed out, a non-consensual mindmeld is mental rape, and the Doctor had been reprogrammed.
The thing is, the aliens could literally appear out of thin air ANYWHERE, with very little warning, and were very quick killers. This adds a level of stress and fear that temporarily overshadowed Janeway's training that she had to deal with the stresses of command. Yes, the more reasonable solution would have been a mindmeld or the 24th c. equivalent of "truth serum." But as pointed out, a non-consensual mindmeld is mental rape, and the Doctor had been reprogrammed.
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